Stefan Karganovic President of Srebrenica Historical Project

Srebrenica: 19-Year-Blueprint for US Intervention

Download audio file 11 July, 2014 03:09

On July 11, 1995, two NATO warplanes bombed Serbian forces, advancing on Srebrenica. But due to the bad weather and the fact that Serbian forces were holding French and Dutch prisoners of war, NATO called off what was to be a massive bombing campaign. Late in the afternoon, Serbian general Mladic and other commanders entered into Srebrenica. They had won, for the moment. This loss by NATO could not accept and through indirect manipulation and false representation of the facts, US and NATO slandered the Serbs and successfully changed the presentation of a legal military operation. Radio Voice of Russia spoke to Stephen Karganovic on the history of Srebrenica in this special interview on the nineteenth anniversary of those events.

Hello, this is John Robles, I am speaking with Stephen Karganovic, he is the president of the Srebrenica Historical Project.

Robles : Hello sir, how are you this evening?

Karganovic: I am fine, thank you very much.

Robles : We have an anniversary of a very tragic event coming up on July, 11. Some might say it was a part of or the beginning of the rule of international lawlessness and wanton impunity by the architects of Yugoslavia’s and Serbia’s destruction by the US and NATO. Why do you think that is important and give us some of the history, please?

Karganovic: Yes, it is definitely what you have just said and it has become the starting point for a process in international relations. I wouldn’t quite say in international law because, as you correctly put it, the process involves the breakdown of law, lawlessness in fact. What happened was that Srebrenica became a propaganda paradigm that was then used to justify military interventions under the guise of the “right to protect” and as a result it served as the rationale for a couple of very destructive military adventures: Kosovo in 1999, and Iraq, then Libya, and now in Syria, and who knows what is next, and the basic rationale for all these adventures was “We must prevent another Srebrenica”.

Well, the ironic thing is that the death toll in Srebrenica, if you take it at its highest, would be about 8,000. And as you and your listeners, probably, know, the death toll in each of these interventions was far more than that. If you are talking about Syria, you can add another zero to the Srebrenica 8,000 and you probably still would not come close to the carnage that occurred there over the last three years. I just might remind you that it was motivated in large part by the presumed need to “prevent another Srebrenica” as the forces of the current president there supposedly were slaughtering their own people. Much the same thing happened in Libya. According to some estimates, the death toll in Libya was 40,000 or 50,000, a bit more modest, and needless to say in Iraq it was enormous. The figure is still controversial, but nobody puts it at less than 100,000 and some estimates go as far as a million, and so on and so forth.

Oh yes, let’s not forget Kosovo. There the death toll was relatively modest but you have to calculate the impact of depleted uranium bombs that were dispersed all over the country and that over the next couple of thousand years will be killing every living thing there, and people are already massively dying of cancer. So you can imagine that too should be attributed to the “humanitarian intervention” that was conducted there.

So Srebrenica has huge geopolitical implications. I am not saying that there was an idea to turn it into that, but it was an opportunistic move. The potential for Srebrenica, once it took shape as a propaganda concept, to serve in that role as the rationale for future “humanitarian interventions” was seen and seized upon. So that would be part of the answer to your question.

The other part is what actually happened in Srebrenica: there is no doubt that what happened was a massacre. That is not controversial. What is controversial - how many people were killed and – even more important – the legal character of the crime that was committed. As you and your listeners are aware, by now whenever the word “Srebrenica” is mentioned we are all indoctrinated to associate it with genocide. That is precisely the way it works, and in its geopolitical application that I mentioned earlier that is the key point. Whenever they get ready to bomb a country and take it over for its resources they say “Well, we have to prevent the genocide that is being perpetrated by the local rulers, so we have to remove them and install a group of people that would be friendly to us and willing to obey our orders”. And – of course – deliver the goods that we covet in that particular country.

So genocide is a very important point when you are talking about Srebrenica and it so happens that, the judgments of the Hague Tribunal takes place, notwithstanding, no evidence was produced for genocide after about half a dozen or more Srebrenica trials. So what we can say with a fair degree of certainty is that after a bitter inter-communal war in that part of Bosnia that lasted for about three years the Serbs took over Srebrenica, and some of them took the law into their own hands, so to speak, and decided to take revenge for all the people on their side that, previous to that, were murdered in raids that were conducted by the units of the Bosnian Muslim army that were operating from Srebrenica. That doesn’t justify a single murder, but it explains it in a far better way than the idea of genocide. There was no intention of exterminating Bosnian Muslims. The most that happened there was that neighbors were very angry at other neighbors and they decided to let them have it for what they had been doing to them over the previous three years. In three or four days they killed, we estimate, up to a thousand Muslim prisoners, which is without the slightest justification, but certainly it was not genocide and there is no forensic or any other type of evidence to support the figure of 8,000 executed prisoners that you hear about all the time.

Robles : What was the actual number, then?

Karganovic: We can only go by the forensic investigations that were conducted by experts of the Hague Tribunal, of the Prosecution, between 1996, beginning right after the massacre that occurred in 1995, and their exhumations of mass graves that went on until 2001. In that period they uncovered the physical remains of about 1,920 individuals. However, we then looked at the pattern of injury. That is very important because at the same time that this massacre of prisoners was going on another significant event was occurring as well. The division of the Bosnian Muslim army that was in Srebrenica was conducting a military breakout from Srebrenica to Muslim-held territory in Tuzla, which is about 60 kilometers away. Along their way they had many clashes with Serbian forces, which used guns and other implements of war, as they were entitled to do, against the military column. As a result of these clashes, thousands of Muslim soldiers and the civilians who were with them were killed, and I just want to make the point that when you have a mixed military-civilian column, the opposing army is entitled to shoot at it. That is not a war crime, it is a legitimate military operation, so everyone that was killed in the breakout of the Muslim army unit was a legitimate casualty, which sounds very bad, I know, in human terms, and it is, but in international law terms that is the way it is. What they have been doing, in effect, was to exhume the graves where the casualties from the fighting were buried and then they would use them to reinforce the numbers of those who were really executed, in order to boost the figure, essentially. So that’s what has been going on.

Robles : Thank you very much for that detailed answer. Now, would you characterize Srebrenica. Not by itself, but the entire situation surrounding it, as a blueprint for what we are seeing now in multiple countries, in particular in Ukraine?

Karganovic: Well, it is different and yet there are striking similarities.

Robles : But the thinking behind it. Unless it is just to destroy as many people as possible.

Karganovic: I think that destroying people is something that occurs naturally when you undertake such a brutal operation which aims only at achieving a certain political effect and doesn’t ask about the human cost. So yes, people will be killed, Muslims, Christians, whatever they may happen to be, and that is a huge tragedy. But to return to your original question as I understood it, Srebrenica in Bosnia has become a huge stumbling block to the reconciliation and peaceful coexistence of the ethnic and religious communities, mainly the Serbs and the Muslims. Croats are not a part of that because there were not any to speak of in that area during the war. So, by creating this narrative that Srebrenica signifies genocide of Muslims by Serbs, you can see how that makes it very difficult for the two communities to come together on any issue, and that is perfectly natural. How could you just calmly sit and have coffee with someone who has committed genocide on your family?

So that makes it very important to clarify what happened, not to minimize the crime – call it by its right name, put it in the proper perspective, and make sure that all sides are aware that they committed crimes in that particular area. Each community committed crimes against the other community and people should be punished as individuals for the crimes that they committed in both communities. And we should not try to impose on one community the burden of a particularly heinous crime just for political effect. And the political effect is pretty obvious: as long as they cannot get together on anything, you need a foreign arbitrator to keep them in check. So, Srebrenica is an example of how the classical “divide and rule” technique operates and in this particular case as long as Muslims hang on to the genocidal narrative they are never going to come to the same table with their Serbian neighbors and plan either a common future, or a civilized divorce, or whatever, although they can still be good neighbors, they can still cooperate and be on good terms even if they live in separate states instead of in a common Bosnian state. That is a completely separate issue. However, as long you have this burden of genocide that is not likely to happen. But what is very likely is that foreign tutelage, and foreign arbitration, and foreign interference in the internal interference and lives of these people is going to go on for a very, very long time and that is a tragedy because they need to seize control of their own destiny and to be masters in their own house.

Robles : Is there any realistic way that we can stop all this meddling? We are seeing it in the Ukraine all over again.

Karganovic: Of course, taking into account the local peculiarities, which they always do, that is roughly the scenario that is taking place in the Ukraine. In Ukraine you don’t have two completely different religions, not that Islam and Christianity are so completely different, in Ukraine you have varieties of the Christian religion. But people have been indoctrinated to exaggerate the differences and to downplay the similarities. As long as you brainwash them in those terms you can always use them as political pawns for your purposes.

You were listening to an interview with Stephen Karganovic. He is the President of the Srebrenica historical project. This is part 1 of a longer interview. You can find the rest of this interview on our website at voiceofrussia.com

Hague Case Against Ailing General Ratko Mladic Failed

Hague case against ailing General Mladic failed – Stefan Karganovic

Download audio file 27 May, 2014 23:50

The trial of Ratko Mladić continues in The Hague with the defense stage now underway. The defense is operating at a disadvantage since they have been denied access to much material on the case and their time has been unfairly limited not to allow all of their witnesses to give testimony. After the closing of the prosecution’s case the Hague has failed to prove that General Mladic was involved in the events at Srebrenica and have scheduled the hearings so aggressively that it is a virtual death sentence for the ailing Mladic. We spoke to Stefan Karganovic, the President of the Srebrenica Historical Project about the trial and related issues. Mr. Karganovic says in cases where the defense has a strong case, as with former President Milosevic, it is convenient for the Hague when defendants die in custody.

This is John Robles you are listening to an interview with Mr. Stefan Karganovic he is the President of the Srebrenica Historical Project.

Robles: Hello sir! It is a pleasure to be speaking with you again!

Karganovic: Same here I am very glad to be on you program!

Robles: I was wondering if you could give our listeners some background on the case of former general Ratko Mladić? He is undergoing persecution; I would call it, in The Hague right now.

Karganovic: The prosecutor at The Hague would probably disagree with you. He would say he is undergoing "prosecution". But of course, you are basically right, it is persecution.

Just briefly, General Ratko Mladić was the commander of the Bosnian-Serb forces during the war in Bosnia 1992 to 1995. He was indicted for war crimes predictably by the Hague Tribunal as the war was drawing to an end and ultimately he had to go into hiding because apparently he didn’t have a great deal of faith in the fairness of the tribunal which was seeking his arrest.

Finally, a couple of years ago he was located and apprehended and the government of Serbia dutifully sent him to The Hague to face charges.

So, right now he is facing an indictment that has been paired down for efficiency’s fake, it is not as comprehensive now as it was originally but the main points are there and they are sufficient for life imprisonment, which is what he is probably going to get.

The indictment focuses on three points basically: Srebrenica, the siege of Sarajevo and ethnic cleansing. To that extent his indictment mirrors closely the indictment of Radovan Karadžić, the president of the Republic of Srpska at the time of the war and they both fundamentally face the same issues and their defense efforts are to that extent parallel.

At the present time general Mladić is being defended by a very capable team of lawyers. The problem is not the experience or the abilities of these lawyers, but the scarce resources that the Tribunal has made available to them. They are defending him "on a shoe string", and I think that saying that is actually quite accurate, when you have to consider that he has only three main defense lawyers, and a very small team of investigators and assistants versus 50 or more people who are working on his case on the side of the prosecution with virtually limitless resources and they have been at it for over the last 15 years.

Robles: Can you give us some details on the defense case please? It just recently started.

Karganovic: The defense team has begun presenting its evidence on May 19th and it is now examining its fourth witness. For the time-being at the start of the defense case, the defense has chosen to deal with the Sarajevo charge of the indictment mainly then it will go on gradually to other issues. The defense plans to bring a total of 336 witnesses and experts in various areas.

At the present time the chamber has approved only 207.5 hours for the defense case, which is the same number of hours that was accorded to the prosecution, so that there will not be enough time for all defense witnesses to testify in person.

So, some of them will present their evidence under rule 92bis basically their witness statements will be submitted to the court which is not as good as when you have a live witness.

According to the defense plan, the first 30 witnesses will give evidence about the Sarajevo war theatre during the Bosnian conflict. These witnesses were in a position of authority in the Bosnian-Serb army at the time.

Their evidence will confirm the defense thesis that Sarajevo was not inaccessible to humanitarian relief convoys and that the convoys were supplying Sarajevo regularly without hindrance.

The only exception were those vehicles which carried contraband, military equipment and weapons, and occasionally some were caught by Bosnian-Serb monitors, and that would always incite a huge human cry in the Western media but they conveniently ignored other instances, which were much more numerous, where the humanitarian convoys made it to Sarajevo unhindered.

A key question is who is responsible for incidents that are cited in the indictment, such as Markala 1 and Markala 2, they are quite famous. Commanders of units deployed in positions from which the indictment alleges, Sarajevo was shelled, will testify on the contrary, it was Bosnian Muslim army that fired those projectiles at its own people in order to provoke Western retaliation and political consequences against the Serbs.

So, in due course the defense will present evidence, also refute prosecution allegations in relation to the Srebrenica massacre in July of 1995, which can be summarized in the prosecution claim that about 8,000 prisoners of war were executed amounting to genocide.

And finally it is important to point out that General Mladic is expecting the arrival of medical team from Russia, whose task will be to assess the general’s failing health condition and the appropriateness of the court’s decision to impose a 5-day court schedule, which is a great strain for him.

That intense schedule would be extremely hard on a healthy person. But in the case of someone who is gravely ill, such as this defendant, it is extremely burdensome and may amount to a virtual death sentence.

Reminder

Robles: The Hague has not been… I think historically (well I don’t want to say that many suspects have died there,) but …

Karganovic: Well yes! About 10 have died there… Why not say it?

Robles: I don’t think they are too concerned about the health of the people...

Karganovic: I think it depends. In some situations they are not. If you are doing well in your defense case, then they probably would rather facilitate your departure from this world than let the case go to its natural conclusion, as in the case of Slobodan Milosevic, there are questions about the way he died in prison in 2006.

In the case of Vojislav Šešelj, they are dragging out the case in ways that are incomprehensible because they obviously do not want him to come back to Serbia and restart his political activity and lately he has become gravely ill in the detention unit of the Hague Tribunal, and treatment that he has been getting has been less than transparent and his family are very, very concerned.

Of course the prosecution case against him is extremely weak so that gaining his departure from this world, would be a godsend for the tribunal which does not mean that they are going to have a part in it, but I am just saying that they would not cry to see him go.

And also in the case of General Mladic it is extremely difficult to speculate what the tribunal’s interest is in the case, with respect to his longevity, but the fact is that the defense has done a much better job than anticipated with the scarce resources that have been placed at its disposal, and general Mladic is an extremely sick man, he has had several heart attacks and is in a very difficult health condition (high blood pressure and so on and so forth).

So, I cannot speak for the tribunal and I am not privy to its inner workings and its state of mind, but I suspect that they would not be too unhappy if he were worked to death literally, having to attend these very strenuous court sessions 5 hours, 5 times a day.

Let’s hope that the medical team visits him and they will give their opinion and then we will take it from there.

Robles: Can you comment on allegations by people in Serbia and other people all around the world actually, that the Hague Tribunal is a completely biased body?

Karganovic: Well I think it is no longer a controversial question. Thinking people around the world, I think would agree that the tribunal has been a very dismal failure and one of the principal reasons that it has been a failure is that its work has very little to do with fairness and justice. So, yes, it is biased and it doesn’t even try too hard to hide its bias.

So, if justice should not just be done, by also be seen to be done, the tribunal of the Hague fails on both counts, because justice is not done there, but the injustice is meted out in such a clumsy way that we do not even have the illusion that justice is being done there.

I think everybody who has had anything to do with the tribunal is going to try to avoid telling their grandchildren that they were involved in it because it is going to be a matter of shame and embarrassment. I am looking into the future… Right now of course they have very comfortable salaries and perks and they are apparently very happy doing their disreputable job.

Robles: As an expert, give us your viewpoints on his involvement and what happened, or non-involvement at Srebrenica.

Karganovic: It is not actually up to me or you to talk about his involvement or non-involvement, in a proper court case whoever is accusing you has to prove that you have done what you are being accused of, in this case, that you organized the massacre of several thousand people at a particular location, in this case Srebrenica.

So, the burden of proof is totally with the prosecution. So, the question we have to ask having heard the prosecution case in the Mladic Trial: how successful has the prosecution been in linking Mladic to these crimes? And I must say that I am unimpressed by the job that the prosecutor has done.

It is one thing to smear people in the media without of course giving him or people who are sympathetic to him an opportunity to respond and then trying him and convicting him in the court of public opinion that you manipulate. It is quite another to do that in court where no matter how biased the proceedings are, you still have to give the other side an opportunity to cross-examine your witnesses and to criticize your evidence and you also have to give the other side ultimately an opportunity to present their case.

We still haven’t observed the defense case with respect to Srebrenica, but we certainly have seen the prosecution case and they have failed to show two things that are really key: number one that what occurred in Srebrenica was a genocide involving 8,000 prisoners of war and the other thing that they failed to demonstrate was the link between General Mladic and the illegal executions that did occur there.

So, on that basis I think that I am justified in concluding that the prosecution has failed in documenting its Srebrenica charges.

Robles: As the president of the Srebrenica Historical Project, can you tell our listeners what really happened there?

Karganovic: Sure!What happened there was there was a UN protected enclave which contained a full division of the army of Bosnia and Herzegovina, the other side in the ethnic war in Bosnia (the other side from the standpoint of Bosnian-Serb forces) and from this enclave the Bosnian army units were staging raids against the Serbian towns and villages surrounding the enclave in spite of the fact that part of the agreement guaranteeing the enclave’s non-combatant status was their obligation to disarm, which never happened.

So, the goal of the operation in July of 1995 was to separate that enclave from a nearby enclave with a similar status called Žepa and they found complete lack of resistance and they took over the enclave, they found about 20,000 women, children and elderly and the men including the combatants gone, disappeared.

In a matter of days they discovered that they were staging a breakout towards Bosnian Muslim territory, about 60 km away, in the direction of Tuzla, and there were many clashes along the way, which resulted in numerous casualties on the Muslim side as well as on the Serbian side. But the Muslim side lost several thousand people in these clashes, which later came to be falsely represented as victims of execution and genocide.

This is John Robles you were listening to an interview with Mr. Stefan Karganovic he is the President of the Srebrenica Historical Project. Thank you very much for listening and we wish you the best wherever you may be.

US Orchestrated Color Revolution Coming Soon to a Country Near You

John Robles and Stephen Karganovic  

1 May, 2014 23:54

The United States of America has been engaged in overthrowing governments, getting rid of leaders (including through outright assassination), organizing revolutions, financially manipulating and subjugating nations and destabilizing countries and regions for decades. For those in Washington and at the CIA in Langley, Virginia their actions are completely justified because they are "protecting and advancing US interests". The United States of America has been engaged in overthrowing governments, getting rid of leaders (including through outright assassination), organizing revolutions, financially manipulating and subjugating nations and destabilizing countries and regions for decades. For those in Washington and at the CIA in Langley, Virginia their actions are completely justified because they are "protecting and advancing US interests". 

They are not concerned with the millions of people that they kill, nor with the suffering their actions bring to the world. Their goal of global hegemony knows no conscience and any means are justifiable to attain their ends. It is a remorseless godless machine bent on global domination and must be stopped.

One of the most damaging ways that the CIA and their front company USAID destabilize countries is the organization of what has become known as the "Color Revolution". By manipulating societies through media and civil society non-governmental organizations (NGOs), carefully funding groups and powerful members of society who will do their bidding, the US is able to cause civil unrest, revolutions and even civil war, all for the sole purpose of installing leaders and governments who will do the US' bidding.

Currently the results of US manipulation are visible in Ukraine and several other countries are dealing with the same type of manipulation. The best way for the people of the world to be prepared to defend their countries and themselves from these types of attacks on sovereignty is to know what to look out for and to be educated on the sometimes extremely subtle ways that the US has of subverting sovereignty and manipulating public opinion.

One brave group of scholars and people studying the tactic recently met to discuss the issue and formulate strategies to deal with the practice. The following is the result of their meeting.

An introduction from Stephen Karganovic

The international scholarly symposium on "Coloured revolutions as an instrument of geopolitical transformation" was held at the Academy of Arts and Sciences of the Republic of Srpska on April 26, 2014. The symposium was under the auspices of the "Strategic Culture Foundation" in Moscow and "Srebrenica Historical Project" from Den Haag, the Netherlands.

Taking part in the proceedings were: Ana Filimonova, editor-in-chief of the "Strategic Culture Foundation" and scholar at the Centre for the study of the Balkan crisis of the Slavic Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow, Sergey Belous, M.A. in history and political analyst, Harkov, Manuel Ochsenreiter, politologist and editor of political monthly "Zuerst!", Berlin, Predrag Ceranic, professor of legal and security sciences, Banja Luka, Aleksandar Pavic, politologist, analyst at the "Strategic Culture Foundation," and director of the SCF office in Belgrade, Danijel Simic, writer and journalist, Banja Luka, Neven Djenadija, M.A. in international relations and diplomacy, University of Banja Luka, Dia Nader de al-Andari, ambassador of Venezuela in Belgrade, Serbia, Stephen Karganovic, president, "Srebrenica Historical Project," Dzevad Galijasevic, sociologist and expert on security and terrorism, Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Srdja Trifkovic, professor of politics and international relations, University of Banja Luka.

Symposium participants considered the experience of other countries [e.g. the Ukraine and Venezuela] which have faced the process of "coloured revolutions" as a form of clandestine political warfare waged by foreign centres and the most efficient ways of proactively neutralizing their effects.

The summary conclusions and recommendations of symposium participants are set forth in the final document entitled "Banja Luka Declaration: A Safety Plan for the Republic of Srpska" [attached]. The final document was forwarded to the Government of the Republic of Srpska and made available to the general public.

Stephen Karganovic

Executive secretary of the symposium

Strategic Culture Fund, Moscow

Den Haag

THE BANJA LUKA DECLARATION: A SAFETY PLAN FOR THE REPUBLIC OF SRPSKA

The technology for the overthrow of noncompliant political leaders in order to replace them with subservient ones, better known as a "color revolution," has been conspicuously deployed in the Republic of Srpska over the last couple of months. Although in the Republic of Srpska this process has not reached a point where it constitutes an imminent threat to the stability of the constitutional order and sustainability of the democratic system, participants in the conference "Colored revolutions as an instrument of geopolitical transformation" consider that a proactive response is among the most efficient ways to neutralize this particular form of clandestine warfare waged by power centers from abroad.

The basic mechanism used in the implementation of this technique is exacerbation, across the broad social spectrum, of existing and often justified causes for discontentment, whereupon mass negative energy is directed toward political objectives in line with the agenda of foreign instigators. The real goals are of an entirely different nature from the proclaimed ones, for which local partisans have been led to believe that they are struggling. In that process, key roles are played by false "NGOs" specifically formed for the purpose, controlled media, and local political figures subject to blackmail, prosecution and other forms of external pressure.

"Colored revolutions" follow a standard pattern which may, to a certain extent, be adapted to local conditions. Essentially, these phenomena are manipulative and anti-democratic because they simulate popular rebellion while, in fact, they are carefully staged intelligence operations, conducted under a false flag and executed by trained cadres under the leadership of professionals. Currently, in addition to the Republic of Srpska, revolutions of this type are in progress or have been partially enacted in Venezuela and the Ukraine.

The basic measures that the leadership of the Republic of Srpska ought to implement in order to reinforce government institutions and impede the successful execution of foreign-inspired "regime change" may be divided in two general categories: social consolidation and an effective policy of social self-defense.

I Social consolidation

Some fundamental steps must be taken to restore and strengthen mutual trust between citizens and their state because only by reducing mutual estrangement in this sphere will the appearance of non-institutional movements, whose ultimate objective is the destabilization of the Republic of Srpska, be thwarted:

- At least one nation-wide television, radio and internet facility should be dedicated to the service of the Republic of Srpska, without the slightest admixture of foreign influence.

- Media should ensure that organizations which advocate solutions for problems by means other than democratic procedures prescribed by the law shall publicly and clearly be perceived as such, especially if they happen to champion any variety of "street action" and non-institutional resistance.

- All participants in public and political life should be obligated, or at least encouraged, to take a clear stand on the political status of the Republic of Srpska and, most importantly, to publicly declare whether he/she supports the inviolability of the Republic of Srpska as a distinct political entity, within or outside the framework of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

- State media should always be open to representatives of the parliamentary political opposition and they should facilitate quality debate, including voices from a wide political spectrum.

- Quality public debate, with the participation of government and opposition on an equal footing, should be encouraged in particular with respect to such key issues as the future of the Republic of Srpska within Bosnia and Herzegovina, NATO integration, EU integration, ties with Serbia and ties with Russia.

- Following the example of Vladimir Putin's dialogues with the nation, government representatives should organize similar forums with citizens using the electronic media.

- Visible and legally effective steps should be taken to suppress corruption within the government in order to restore and strengthen citizen trust in state institutions.

- Initially at least one sector of the economy should be visibly opened to market competition under terms of equality in order to demonstrate that economic progress is possible outside the structure of corrupt political networks.

- Following the U. S. model, steps should be taken to create propitious conditions for institutionalized collaboration between science and the economy, selecting in the initial phase at least one area where fairly quick and visible results can be achieved.

- In the field of foreign policy, political, cultural, economic, and media ties should be strengthened with the Russian Federation as the only leading power whose objective is not to abolish the Republic of Srpska or subsume it within a centralized Bosnia and Herzegovina. Those ties should, as a minimum, be symmetrical to those maintained with EU states.

II Policy of social self-defense

ZERO TOLERANCE FOR LAWLESS CONDUCT – From the very beginning of any hypothetical "protests" it is necessary to strictly enforce all applicable laws (noting whether a permit for the assembly was granted, at what location, and for what length of time) and there ought to be zero tolerance for the violation of legal norms, excluding any type of violence, disrespect for instructions to disperse given over loudspeakers, infliction of physical damage to buildings or vehicles, or assaults on law enforcement personnel. "Protest" organizers regularly count on the hesitation of law enforcement to act decisively from the very start. Indecisiveness in the of response enables them to establish physical control over some symbolically significant point which subsequently becomes the focus of further activities.

EQUIPPING AND TRAINING LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL – Retaining control over public space is key to the survival of legal authorities when under attack by "regime change" organizers. That task requires superbly equipped, professionally trained and highly motivated policemen specialized in crowd control, i.e. police professionals prepared to prevent large-scale violations of public peace and order.

Regular RS Interior Ministry units are inadequately equipped and trained, tactically and psychologically, for this exceptionally complex task. That is not surprising: the challenge of crowd control in the "colored revolution" context is such that regular police are not up to the task. It is one thing to control soccer fans, and quite another to control a carefully choreographed street coup. The Special Police Unit (SJP) is primarily tasked with conducting anti-terrorist operations and combating organized crime. It has in its ranks sharpshooters, divers, an SMB team, a canine unit, etc. but it lacks crowd control specialists. The unavailability of a specialized police unit for crowd control carries a double peril, as has already been noted elsewhere on "colored revolution" battlegrounds: if the police fail to successfully place unlawful conduct under control from the beginning, the violence, accompanied by the use of weapons, may later escalate and that is precisely what the orchestrators of the protest are aiming for.

For the foregoing reasons, a specialized Intervention Unit of the Ministry of the Interior of the Republic of Srpska should be formed and tasked with maintaining law and order along the same lines as similar specialized units which have proved efficient in other countries. Personnel for this unit should be selected according to the highest criteria from within the existing police ranks. Adequate equipment (armored transport vehicles, water guns with colored liquid, helmets and invulnerable body armor, transparent shields, gas masks, tear gas, rubber bullet sidearms, tasers, pepper spray, police dogs, horses, etc.) is indispensable for intense and continued tactical training to commence. In the area of theoretical preparation, it is of particular importance to teach members of the Intervention Unit about the technique of street revolutions, i.e. the methodology of the orchestrators and executors of "regime change." This important aspect was missing in the training given to the Ukrainian Berkut. If members of the future Intervention Unit are comprehensively instructed in the difference between appearances and the genuine nature of the "protest," they will be enabled to remain calm and firm in the performance of their tasks.

LAW ON NGO FINANCING AND ACTIVITIES. A law regulating the activities of "non-government organizations" should be adopted in the Republic of Srpska. There are a number of institutions in Banja Luka whose goals, ideological inspiration, and methods are closely analogous to Belgrade branches of the same central organization (e.g. the Helsinki Human Rights Committee, Humanitarian Law Fund, etc.) and which constitute the key logistical foundation of the "regime change" process. Those NGOs are merely local subsidiaries of Western power centers. The more important among them have been financed for years by U.S. quasi-independent outfits such as the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Democratic Institute, which receive their funding entirely or for the most part from the U.S. Treasury.

The law regulating the activities of the "NGOs" should be no more than a copy of the U.S. Foreign Agents Registration Act, or FARA, which in the U.S. governs the activities of associations and private individuals that are financed by foreign governments. That law prescribes total transparency within the U.S. for activities that elsewhere in the world are generously financed by the U. S. State Department. In the United States, the Federal Election Campaign Act explicitly prohibits any and all foreign interference in the domestic electoral process in the U.S. However, such interference is considered legitimate and desirable when it is practiced by Washington's minions in the former SFRY (or in the successor states of the former USSR), under the pretext of "spreading democracy."

It is high time for the National Assembly of the Republic of Srpska to consider passing a law based on the American model to regulate foreign financing of the so-called non-government sector. This law need not be any stricter or more confining than its U.S. counterpart: whoever is at the receiving end of foreign funding should simply register as a "foreign agent". Thenceforward it shall be business as usual for them, but in the media and in public statements by government officials of the Republic of Srpska it will be perfectly legitimate to characterise such outfits as "foreign agencies". The rejoinder to inevitable objections about "democracy suppression" is that, on the contrary, democracy in the Republic of Srpska is strengthened and broadened through such legislation by the assimilation of the practice and experience of, purportedly, the most democratic country in the world.

Bearing in mind the experience of other countries which have been targeted by this subversive process, participants in the conference "Colored revolutions as an instrument of geopolitical transformation" believe that, in the initial phase, measures proposed to the public and the Government of the Republic of Srpska in this document should be sufficient to anticipate and counter undemocratic varieties of political change. Such attempts are quite often marked by violence, and wherever seen, without exception, have served not their falsely proclaimed goals but as an instrument for the imposition of foreign domination.

Ana Filimonova, editor-in-chief of the "Strategic Culture Foundation," M.A. in history, scholar at the Centre for the study of the contemporary Balkan crisis of the Slavic Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

Aleksandar Pavić, political analyst, "Strategic Culture Foundation" and director of the SCF office in Belgrade.

Dr. Srdja Trifković, professor of politics and international relations, University of Banja Luka.

Dr. Predrag Ćeranić, professor of legal and national security sciences.

Manuel Ochsenreiter, political analyst, editor of the newsmagazine

"Zuerst!", Berlin

Stephen Karganović, president, "Srebrenica Historical Project."

Banja Luka, April 26, 2014

US Regime Change Attempt Underway in Republika Srpska  - Part One

Download audio file  23 April, 2014 22:03

The practice of regime change through color revolutions and destabilization practiced by the US can currently being seen in countries all over the world including Ukraine, Venezuela and the Serbskaya Republic. Russia has faced the entire US color revolution architecture and thanks to its strong security services was able to successfully fend off this form of attack on sovereignty. Smaller countries and territories like the Serbskaya Republic however are very vulnerable to the manipulations of USAID, Transparency International and the entire group of organizations and NGOs that the West uses to manipulate countries to submit to its hegemony.

The most effective weapon against these organizations is transparency and informing the public about their nefarious activities. Stephan Karganovic, the President of the Srebrenica Historical Project, discussed these issues with the Voice of Russia and actually named those responsible in the Serbskaya Republic.

Hello! This is John Robles, you are listening to an interview with Mr. Stephan Karganovic. He is the President of the Srebrenica Historical Project.

Robles: Hello Sir! How are you this fine evening?

Karganovic: Hi! I'm fine, thank you.

Robles: It is a pleasure to be speaking with you. Last time we spoke, it was before the coup in Ukraine. We spoke in February and you gave us your insights on what was going on in the Republika Srpska and regarding Ukraine. What do you think about what has happened in Ukraine? You pretty much predicted everything.

Karganovic: Well, it didn't take a crystal ball, just some good analytical acumen and following the news and connecting the dots.

Indeed, the one thing that I was unable to predict was the elegant response of Russian diplomacy and the fact that without much violence Russia is apparently succeeding in neutralizing the pro-nazi thugs who have taken over in Kiev, and who apparently want to extend and consolidate their control in the eastern parts of the country, which evidently loathes everything that they stand for and does not want to be associated with such a regime.

It was pretty easy to predict that there would be disorders, that people would not be willing to accept the dictate of this unrepresentative coup government willingly, but I am really surprised and delighted that things are going the way they are, which shows that there isn't very much popular support for the coup government beyond the militants who were used to bring it to power.

So, I think there is hope for a peaceful solution, which includes the federalization of the country and respect for the rights of all the citizens of Ukraine, without destroying the country. I think these are the most important priorities.

Robles: You are a specialist in color revolutions, can you tell us a little bit about Republika Srpska? If we recall, they tried to launch the same thing and it went away within (what was it?) 36 hours or something. That's continued there. Can you tell about what is going on now?

Karganovic: Yes, with pleasure. It is still in progress but they haven't really taken off the ground. It has not worked according to their expectations. And there are many reasons for that. I would say the major reasons are two.

Number one, the fact that ultimately this process in the Republika Srpska is being managed by people who are outsiders, total foreigners, who do not understand the culture and the mentality of the people. So, they are giving pretty poor instructions to their people on the ground. That's one reason.

The other reason is that their on the ground collaborators are a pretty pathetic bunch. They really have not been able to find and hire a first-class team. So, that shows in the numerous mistakes that they have made so far, and as a result they are at this point not getting anywhere.

However, I would caution, when you have a lot of money that you are willing and capable to throw at people, you can always accomplish things.

So, I would not underestimate the other side. They still have a couple of months before the elections which are scheduled in October to modify their strategy or to come up with new tactics. You never know what they will come up with.

So, one has to very carefully follow this process and be ready to respond, first of all, analytically and then politically as the circumstances may warrant.

Robles: Do you think they'll go so far as to organize events of violence?

Karganovic: Absolutely! Absolutely, I have no doubts. I would divide their plan into three variants, at this point: plan A is elections, which are scheduled, as I said, in October of this year in the Republika Srpska and throughout Bosnia and Herzegovina. Each entity will have its own electoral process. President Dodik is going to be the candidate for the current government and the ruling political coalition.

The opposition, which is largely under the influence of the West has not yet selected its candidate to oppose him. And that's pretty significant. They are bickering among themselves and they have not been able to agree on who is going to be the standard bearer for the opposition. They were going to announce that this month and they recently moved that to next month, to May. So, maybe in May we will find out who the opponent of the opposition will be.

But the main thing to bear in mind is that the elections will work for them under one of two conditions. One is: if their candidate has a good chance to win and the other is; if the election could be very close and then, of course, the standard procedure is to accuse the unsuitable candidate, the non-cooperative candidate, which in this case would be President Dodik, of having stolen the election. And then, they could put international pressure on him and so on and so forth. You know how that works. We've seen that in Yugoslavia in 2000, in Georgia and in other places. So, they manipulate things for them to come up on top.

Neither of those scenarios at this point look feasible, because President Dodik, contrary to all expectations, if you look at it from purely Western point of view, which is that people vote with their pocketbooks (you know, the American political wisdom), that doesn't really work here, because in addition to that…of course, normal people do take economic and social factors into account, but here other considerations are also present. And they are very influential, and they are not so tangible. So, they have failed to take that into account.

So, I think that the electoral option is something that they are slowly going to drop, because if they go that route – whomever they put up as the opposition candidate, the way things look like now Dodik is looking forward to a victory and a pretty impressive victory.

So, I think that plan B, and then I will come to plan C, plan B is: a Ukraine-style upheaval that would be totally managed and generated with the assistance of foreign special services. How successful that would be is also questionable at this point. They have been working on two parallel tracks.

They have already laid the groundwork for this sort of Ukrainian-style upheaval. But it is not getting anywhere right now in the Republika Srpska, which, again, doesn't mean that it may not take off in a month or two, if they modify their tactics. But at this point it is not going anywhere. So, it doesn't look very promising. They have two main phony NGOs that ar e pushing that option and they have not managed to mobilize a significant following.

So, plan C I think is the ethnic card. There is a Muslim minority in the Republika Srpska, just as there is a Serbian and Croatian minority in the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. And they have been very active lately stirring up the Muslim minority and presenting their situation in the light that doesn't have much to do with the reality. But they are trying to portray Muslims as an oppressed and disenfranchised minority in the Republika Srpska.

Robles: They tried to do that in Ukraine too.

Karganovic: Yes, exactly! It is the same formula, yes, you are absolutely right. Their pattern is the same, the template is the same wherever you go. They are not very creative. So, it is the same thing, basically.

And they are trying to stir up civil disobedience and opposition to the government in the ranks of the Muslim minority here, which, I can assure you, is fully free. All its cultural, religious and other rights are respected. So, there is no real issue there, but you can always create an issue, even when one does not actually exist. And they are working hard to do that.

Now, what I want to point out particularly relevant to this scenario is that there are very few but some Muslim extremists in Bosnia and Herzegovina, who have participated in the conflict in Syria and they keep circulating back and forth. So, there is already a cadre of a couple of hundred people in that category with military experience and, I would imagine, also links to the same special services who are conduction the rebellion in Syria, using them over there. And they can use them here in Bosnia and Herzegovina as well.

So, there is a huge potential there for trouble, if the first two scenarios fail. And then, what is important to remember is that if they succeed to play on that ethnic oppression card, that will trigger the international community, which is present in Bosnia and Herzegovina through the office of the High Representative, there are still some peacekeeping troops here.

In February, when the trouble was going on here in Bosnia, the High Representative ominously said that if it spreads, he will consider calling reinforcements.

It didn't spread at that point, but if it is made to spread in the Republika Srpska, you can see the potential for the High Representative calling in the troops and reinforcements “to restore order”, but actually to overthrow the legal and democratically elected government, which at this point seems to have every chance of being reelected, and to impose puppets in their place.

Reminder

Robles: Before all of this started in Ukraine, we talked very candidly about the actors behind all this. And I wrote several articles calling for the security services of Ukraine to pretty much clamp down. This was right when all that started. Which I think they should have done and all of this would have been prevented. In the light of that, I don't know how strong your security services are there.

Karganovic: This is a very important point. The Republika Srpska is not a sovereign country. Technically, theoretically, the sovereign country is Bosnia and Herzegovina, and it consists of two entities or two provinces, that is to say the Republika Srpska and the federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

So, the security services, the army – all the major institutions that a sovereign state could have are concentrated on the federal level. So, the Republika Srpska is much more defenseless than Ukraine was before the coup on February 22nd .

Robles: I see. This might be – I don't know if you are willing – it might be dangerous, it might not be, but can you name names here? Can you tell us of some of the groups, of the NGOs etc that are involved there in all of this?

Karganovic: Sure, I can. But that would be pretty meaningless to your listeners, because these are local groups that have no international significance.

Robles: They don't like to get on the record.

Karganovic: What is important is that they are financed by all the usual suspects.

Robles: For example?

Karganovic: The USAID and so on and so forth. Fine! Let me tell you a couple of them.

Robles: I just know from personal experience, these groups don't like publicity and they don't like to be called out. Even the USAID get really upset when people point out that they are involved in destroying countries and destabilizing governments.

Karganovic: So, let's upset them! I'm always happy to do that. One of them is called Transparency International.

Robles: Okay, again!

Karganovic: Another one is called the Helsinki Parliament of Citizens of Banja Luka. Then, there is Slobodna Republika (the Free Republic), BUKA, then, there is a GEA Center for Research and Studies. There is the Initiative of Youth for Human Rights. Then, there is the Srpska Times, an English language newspaper that is being published here since a couple of months ago. And I think that it is slated to play the role of the Syria Observatory in London to provide managed news reports from the field, once things get started, which will be in English and they can easily be picked up by the western news services and then distributed throughout the world as established facts.

Robles: What's that called again?

Karganovic: That's Srpska Times. You can google it and they have an Internet edition as well.

Robles: Yes, the Moscow Times, the Kiev Times, the Srpska Times. Got it!

Karganovic: Exactly! The same idea, they are not very original.

Robles: They never are.

Karganovic: Then, there is an Association of Veterans of the Republika Srpska. Then, there are a number of Internet portals and blogs, no point in mentioning them. They are absolutely meaningless to your listeners. Then, they already have a team of politically correct commentators and “experts”, who are ready to contribute their two cents' worth.

There is a lady by the name Tanja Topic. She is a know-it-all commentator that the Western news services regularly consult with on every issue. There is a lady economist. Her name is Svetlana Fenech.

You were listening to an interview with Stephan Karganovic. He is the President of the Srebrenica Historical Project. That was part 1 of a longer interview.

Western Color Revolution Architecture Activated in Bosnia-Herzegovina - Part One

Download audio file  16 February, 2014 23:13

Intro Part One

The color revolution that is being carried out in Ukraine is not the only recent attempt to overthrow a government by western architects, color revolution architecture was also recently activated in Bosnia-Herzegovina by groups using the giveaway OTPOR symbol. 

The “uprising” staged by almost entirely young thugs started and ended suddenly, a clear sign that it had been orchestrated. According to Stephan Karganovic, a geopolitical specialist and the President of the Srebrenica Historical Project, whoever was directing it concluded that it was not bearing fruit the way it had been set up and so they told everybody to go home. Mr. Karganovic is certain that intense consultations and analysis are currently taking place and that another attempt will be made soon to get rid of President Dodik and to derail the Republic of Srpska and the leadership in Sarajevo. The West want to bring the country into NATO and integrate it more closely within the western structures. That is their goal and they will not stop. Mr. Karganovic says: “… be prepared, and keep your eye on the ball.”

This is John Robles. You are listening to an interview with Stefan Karganovic. He is the president of the Srebrenica Historical Project. This is part 1 of a longer interview. You can find the rest of this interview on our website at voiceofrussia.com.

Robles: Hello, sir! How are you this evening?

Karganovic: Hello, I'm fine. I hope you are also.

Robles: I'm very well, thank you very much for agreeing to do the interview.

Karganovic: My pleasure.

Robles: Thank you. A lot of things going on in Bosnia and Ukraine simultaneously. I don't know if one is supposed to distract from the other or what is going on?

I'd like to ask you some questions about the correlations that you see between what is happening in Ukraine right now, what happened in Serbia, in the former Yugoslavia with color revolutions and in particular a logo that was used by the group OTPOR which the world has come to know was the US’ instrument for implementing the color revolution there? So, anyway...

Karganovic: Exactly.

Robles: What is going on there in Bosnia right now, please?

Karganovic: Well, right now, today not much is going on, but plenty was going on a few days ago. And basically what happened is that a color revolution type uprising erupted last Friday and it lasted for about two and a half days.

The interesting thing about it is that it started suddenly and ended suddenly. And that, in and of itself, I think strongly suggests that there is a guiding hand behind it because a spontaneous uprising by people who are hungry, disaffected for various reasons, and so forth, probably would have started more slowly and gradually and would have gone on or would have tapered off more gradually.

What we have seen in Bosnia was a sudden upheaval that ended just as suddenly and it is only my assumption that it ended suddenly because whoever was directing it concluded that it was not bearing fruit the way it was set up and so they told everybody to go home.

And I'm sure that right now there are intense consultations and analysis going on as to why the plan didn't work as anticipated and what can be done to improve it for the next time around.

So I anticipate that within a couple of weeks, maybe a month or two we will have the same situation again, probably with a slightly modified scenario reflecting the lessons learnt. But what we have to bear in mind is that the objective continues to be the same, and in Bosnia what I discern are two fundamental objectives: the main one is to destabilize the Serbian entity, the Republic of Srpska and to get rid of its president Milorad Dodik, who has led a very independent minded policy and a policy of friendship with Russia.

When I say independent minded that is slightly ambiguous, we can debate whether he has in mind ultimately independence for the Republic of Srpska, but the policies that he is pursuing are his own, they are not policies that he is just implementing as dictated from abroad or somewhere else. In that sense that is the main sense in which I use the word independent when I describe him and that is of course a no no that has to be taken care of because it is a bad example for other countries, especially small countries.

He has been defiant for too long. I can perfectly understand from the standpoint of the organizers of these upheavals why they want to get rid of him. But the slightly surprising aspect of the violence in Bosnia is that apparently the goal is not just to get rid of Dodik and to derail the Republic of Srpska, but also to get rid of the leadership in Sarajevo which is surprising because unlike Dodik it has been very cooperative.

So why would they want to get rid of it? Well, I see an analogy between that and the Shevardnadze case in Georgia in 2003. He was very cooperative but it was obvious by that time that his luck was running out, the Georgian people were getting tired of him, he was not delivering the goods. So, it was probably a preemptive strike when they organized a color revolution in Georgia and brought in Saakashvili who of course was their guy also maybe even more so because he was educated in the West. But the idea was to change the ruling team while you had an opportunity to control the process. So the change wouldn't come from below.

And of course that this artificial color revolution change comes with all kinds of promises and slogans for better life and blah-blah-blah so that duped masses think that something is going to happen to improve their lives and it gives the new regime a new lease on life.

And I think that they have something similar in mind for Sarajevo because these guys are just very querulous, they are very narrow minded, they want to cooperate but they are not flexible enough. They do not fit into the new concept of governance which calls for a centralistically ruled Bosnia and Herzegovina, the entity is being gradually fazed-out and a trans-ethnic team is being installed in Sarajevo to rule the country under a simplified constitution and I agree that the present set up is cumbersome and not very functional. But they want to simplify it, not to make the lives of the people easier but to make it more easily governable for their own purposes which is to bring the country into NATO and integrate it more closely within the western structures.

When you get rid of all these leaders who have ethnic ties to their own constituencies even if they are trying to be cooperative and you bring in the new people that you educated abroad like Saakashvili, I think a bunch of the Bosnian Saakashvilis are probably being trained somewhere and will be brought onto the scene pretty soon, then ruling the country becomes much easier.

Robles: I see. Now, most of these protests as I understand took place in the Muslim Croatian parts of the country. I'd like you to comment on that if you could.

Karganovic: Yes, well, that is one very interesting aspect of what happened because the conventional wisdom until a week ago literally, was that they would try to stir something up in the Republic of Srpska because that is their main objective right now to, let's use the proper word, “overthrow” the Republic of Srpska and certainly to get rid of its leadership.

Instead they started in the federation and that is very interesting and susceptible to various interpretations. I would personally say that it was a clever move because first of all it points to what I mentioned earlier; that their goal is not just the removal of Dodik and his team but also of their satellites in Sarajevo and their replacement by a new group. So, for that you need pressure from below in the Federation but more importantly the idea I think was to stir up socio-economic trouble in the federation.

Initially they were not talking about political issues, but about the miserable economic and social conditions which truly are miserable and they are miserable on both sides of the entity lines, in the Federation and in the Republic of Srpska. So they probably counted on the Federation being a model for a similar uprising in the Republic of Srpska.

In other words they misread completely the psychology of the people, the ethnic component, the memory of the enmity from the war in Bosnia is still very much alive and while everybody likes the idea of living better, that is undeniable, the Serbs are very suspicious of anything coming from the Federation.

So they just didn't take the bait, there was absolutely no movement even remotely resembling that in the Republic of Srpska. All that happened was that two western backed NGOs in Banja Luka staged a support rally which drew a huge crowd of about 50 people.

The same thing happened in Belgrade by the way, they had a support rally where more policemen were in attendance than people showing support for what was going on in the Federation.

So what we saw was, and I hate to sound as if I thought there was a big conspiracy, there is no conspiracy because if you are carefully watching the sides as I have been for the last year and a half, I could clearly see it coming and they were not even trying to hide it. So there is no conspiracy, it was all in the open, if you had eyes to see it but they were setting up the infrastructure of the color revolution going back about the year and a half that I could clearly see it in the Republic of Srpska.

So at the certain moment when the signal was given all these structures were activated, not only in the Republic of Srpska but in the Federation and even in Serbia and very curiously if you now follow the reactions the commentary in the Western press (a wide variety of media and analysts) they are saying: “Well, here, at last we are witnessing people of all ethnicities in Bosnia united by social concerns, they are forgetting ethnicity and they are all demanding a new constitution,” which of course by their definition has to be centralistic and doing away with the separate ethnic homelands, “… and they are all in it together. It is time to revisit the Dayton Agreement and to change it radically,” to conform to what is termed “the wishes of the people.”

But it didn't work. So what happened, well, it is sad really, as I read the last couple of days’ comments from the Western analysts. They missed the fact that what started that way ended abruptly and in failure. They just didn't notice that. They assumed that what started last week is still going on successfully, so they are writing, analyzing a fictitious reality. But that fiction has already been exposed as a fiction.

There is no common set of values uniting the people of all ethnicities in Bosnia. Sure, having a dissent life and the job and a good income is something everyone would welcome, but there are other concerns as well, that are even more important.

So, at this point what was started last week, I think we can confidently say is a complete failure, but they are now analyzing their mistakes and they will be back in a very short time. So you have to be prepared, you have to keep your eye on the ball.

END PART 1

US Color Revolution Architects Fabricate Reality - Part Two

Download audio file

Intro Part Two

In a continuation of a discussion on the construction and implementation of color revolutions, something that is topical and alarming to people in countries targeted for regime change by the US, Stephan Karganovic the President of the Srebrenica Historical Project, and an expert on the issue, discusses the recent fabricated uprising in Bosnia and also in Ukraine. 

Robles: Okay, I’d like to say a couple of things: first of all you were talking about uniting territories, so that there were no territorial disputes or other ethnic homelands or arguments about that, I don’t know if you are aware, but that is one of the conditions for (A) joining NATO, that is why Saakashvili….

Karganovic: Of course, I’m aware of that. And that is exactly the idea. They have to centralize the country for the convenience of the EU and of NATO.

Robles: Exactly!

Karganovic: And they are not really concerned about the local people and how they feel about it.

Robles: Right! And speaking about NATO again, that is one reason why they did not allow Russian peacekeepers in Kosovo at the beginning, because one of the NATO’s conditions is that there should be no foreign military forces, be they peacekeepers or anybody else, that’s why they were killing Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia, when Saakashvili was going all out to try to get into NATO.

Karganovic: That’s right!

Robles: Anyway, I’d like to comment again on… and ask you to expand on what you were talking about in light of what is going on in Ukraine. You were talking about analysts. I think they’ve lost something in the chain of command there. I mean, these were people that were already going to publish results and you said it seems like they are reporting on a false reality.

Karganovic: Yes, they are creating their own reality and they are believing their own fictions. And that is what I was saying just a moment ago about the reporting on what was going on in Bosnia. A similar procedure is being applied to the Ukraine. And I think… well, I’m not trying to give them any useful lessons, but if they ask me for advice, I would that is a huge mistake, because if you do that, it is more likely that you are going to make false moves that will cost you politically.

It is better, if you want deceive them, but don’t believe your own lies. And I think that is one of the huge mistakes that they are making. They are so arrogant that they think that they can produce reality and they become also the victims of their own mendacity.

Robles: Right! And I think arrogant is an understatement. I mean, we’ve heard and I'm sure you’ve heard those comments between Victoria Nuland and…I’ve forgot his name…

Karganovic: Of course I have.

Robles: Klitchy, and they are giving everybody these little nicknames, how he is not going to be the Prime Minister and he is going to be here, and oh we’ve spent $52 billion, Ukraine is pretty much ours, going over to Ukraine, because that’s continuing…. Another thing you’ve mentioned, I think it was right and I’d like to underline this as well, was that the same thing was attempted here in Moscow. And the Russian security services and the President, they took a very proper line, they shut down all the instruments that were supposed to bring about this color revolution here. Again, they use the same playbook all the time. We are dealing with people who are extremely arrogant, extremely powerful, but not very creative and not very bright. And you mentioned yourself a few minutes ago that they do not understand the psychology. and they do not understand the people of these countries they are trying to destroy. They don’t understand the Syrian people….

Karganovic: Well, of course, let’s not deny that in some instances they have been successful. But Bosnia is a particularly complicated case, because of its ethnic and religious divisions.

So, you cannot take a college course in Central Europe with a few chapters on Bosnia and then act as if you knew what was going on there, as if you understood the thinking of the people and how they would react in certain situations. It is very-very complex.

And that is where Western analysts are weak and, I would say, the Americans in particular.

So, that is reflected in some of their failures, definitely, and it is clearly reflected in what’s happened in Bosnia last week, which doesn’t mean that they are not going to regroup, analyze what happened and maybe call the British in for help, for some advice. I would do that if were in their place, because the British usually handle these things a lot more subtly. They have a better understanding of these cultural issues. But anyway, I don’t want to give them practical advice.

Robles: If that happens I think the British are famous for using more extreme measures sometimes and I think we would be seeing something like a terrorist act or something taking place. And I’m saying that to stop it from happening. But I would say that any sort of provocation that they can bring about – be it the murder of… Something like they did in Syria with 426 children etc.

Karganovic: Yes, of course. In addition to Gene Sharp’s quote/unquote “Nonviolent Resistance Playbook” there is also this other very sinister playbook to which you are alluding, and where they are going to put an emphasis on…. We just have to keep an eye on this situation and we’ll find out. But the main thing is not to, as they say in Spanish, cantara victoria, because it is not over before it is over, as Yogi Berra said. So, it is going to last for a while yet.

I think that the Republika of Srpska has a very good chance to make it to through this crisis, it has a very good politically savvy leader and people who are not susceptible to this deception, as some of the other targeted societies have been. So, I’m moderately confident, but it is not over.

Robles: I don’t think it is over myself. And I think there needs to be a very intensive effort of the security services of the countries that are currently being targeted and there is an overall theme here. And I think you’ll agree that every country that is friendly or pursues policies with the Russia Federation right now is being targeted intensely.

Karganovic: Yes, absolutely! You can see that in Venezuela. You are probably keeping up with the news from there. They are trying to create their own Maidan in Caracas. I don’t know whether that will work or not, but at least the Venezuelan Government is responding very forcefully, very resolutely.

And then, also, curiously in Brazil when the current president started acting in a more independent way, there was a wave of violence. Again, the pretext was something banal, I think raising the price on buses or something like that.

Robles: Right, and building the stadium for the World Cup or something like that.

Karganovic: Right! But then it escalates from there, because this is a magnet that draws people who are politically unsophisticated and then those who are managing the process escalate by bringing in political slogans, political concerns and so on and so forth. They are very skilled technicians.

Robles: Except for they are not very creative. And they are not very creative, you just mentioned slogans. On the Internet there have appeared… there was the group Otpor which served to destroy Yugoslavia. It was like colour revolution 1.0.

Karganovic: Yes, it is beyond me why they are doing that. I mean, I’ve known uncreative people in my life and so have you, I’m sure, and this is downright stupid.

You just identify yourself immediately by using that fist. I mean, there are other symbols that I could think of. They should come and talk to me, I think I could give them some useful advice, creative advice.

But the fist is a dead giveaway, it immediately classifies this movement as something akin to what happened in Yugoslavia in the year of 2000 and in Georgia, and in other places. So, you see it as a managed process, not a spontaneous one. It is not a popular movement, but an artificial, synthetic movement that has been put together by the same set of political manipulators.

Why they do that? I don’t know.

Robles: With the Femen group, it was visible this punk rock group. I don’t really want to say their name on the air because I don’t say words like that. And the logos are all in what language?

Karganovic: In English. I can talk about the logos right now in Bosnia. And I’ve seen it, of course. I’ve seen it in Kiev: the demonstrators with banners in English. Not all of course, most of them are in Ukrainian, and that is also very significant, because the main language of the majority of the people in Ukraine is Russian actually. And the banners are mostly in Ukrainian and there are a few in English, which obviously are designed to impress the western audiences. They are put on display in front of the Western media to convey a message in a language that people in the West would understand, which means absolutely nothing to Ukrainian grandmothers, of course.

And then, there is another thing that I’d like to point out with respect to the Ukraine. If you listened to the terminology of Mrs. Nuland, she never says [‘ki:ev], she says [‘ki:ef]. So, she is pandering to the Ukrainian nationalist separatist mentality. I think that is very interesting. I don’t think it is a major issue, but certainly she is not doing it by accident. She is appealing to a certain audience and she is snubbing another audience which shouldn’t be snubbing, because they are actually the majority of the population. But again, we were talking about arrogance and its effects, and I think that is another small reflection of that arrogance.

Robles: The narrative in the West about the Ukrainian Government…I’ll be honest, I’ve gotten hate mails, I’ve gotten death threats and stuff for writing some articles on Ukraine. The narrative is that the Government is some sort of evil mafia state and they are like suppressing demonstrators and everything. Can you tell us who is the US State Department (and who in reality) is Victoria Nuland and the EU supporting in Ukraine to overthrow the Government?

Karganovic: Well, it is hard for me to really deal with that question because it was never within my purview to concern myself with those issues. All I know is that she popped up as Assistant Secretary of State. She has this aggressive, decidedly unfeminine demeanor that these women in government now have. That’s one of the basic qualifications for the job.

Robles: She was the ambassador to NATO. That should tell you something.

Karganovic: Right! As far as her background is concerned, I don’t really know the details, all I know is what I see on my television screen and that is bad enough.

 Color revolution infection? Tell the West: Get out! - Part Three

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Intro Part Three

The conversation that was leaked on the Internet between Victoria Nuland, the US Assistant Secretary of State, and the US Ambassador to Ukraine clearly and unarguable proves and demonstrates the US interfering with and in fact manipulating the political events in a sovereign country on its own territory. The rare look at the real workings of US color revolution architects blatantly shows the relationship between the puppeteers and the puppets. In an interview on the construction and implementation of color revolutions Stephan Karganovic, the President of the Srebrenica Historical Project, discussed these issues and much more.

Robles: Who in reality is Victoria Nuland and the EU supporting in Ukraine to overthrow the government?

Karganovic: Well, it is hard for me to really deal with that question because it was never within my purview to concern myself with those issues. All I know is that she popped up as Assistant Secretary of State. She has this aggressive, decidedly unfeminine demeanor that these women in government now have. That’s one of the basic qualifications for the job.

Robles: She was the ambassador to NATO. That should tell you something.

Karganovic: Right! As far as her background is concerned, I don’t really know the details, all I know is what I see on my television screen and that is bad enough.

Not to mention the scandalous conversation with an ambassador which clearly demonstrates the intention to manipulate political events in a sovereign foreign country, on its territory by the way, which I think is wonderful for the Balkans, we had translated it into Serbian by the way. And it is going around on the Internet.

Robles: Wonderful.

Karganovic: Because it gives people here, some of them are idealists, they think that..

Robles: They think this doesn't happen?

Karganovic:...things like this may come from the West. But basically they can analyze things if you give then material to analyze and that conversation is pretty blatant because it shows the relationship between the masters (the puppeteers) and the puppets.

Where they are discussing how to distribute government posts, who is acceptable, who is not acceptable, among these opposition leaders. Where are the Ukrainian people in that conversation?

Mrs. Nuland apologized to, I think the EU for her vulgarity, she should have apologized to the people of the Ukraine, not the government, to the people of the Ukraine. I think it never occurred to her to do that.

Robles: Of course not, of course not. And I don't know if you know this about Nuland her husband, his name is Kagan, he is one of the Bilderbergers. So, there you go.

Karganovic: Well…

Robles: A few minutes ago you mentioned the demonstrations that were taking place there. And you mentioned that there were more police than there were actual demonstrators, that actually happened here in Moscow as well.

Karganovic: That happened in Belgrade a few days ago certainly. I think it was on Sunday or Monday, I'm not sure.

Robles: What other areas or countries do you think are going to be targeted in the near future? And why do you think there is this big push right now? Do you think this has something to do with the failure to start a war in Syria that they were supposed to profit from? And if you could: we were talking about the revolutions that they are organizing in countries that are friendly with Russia. What about the Middle East? Because they pretty much use the same formula, I think, all over the world.

Karganovic: Yes. Yes. It starts with something trivial but then there is always an organized group waiting in the wings to take over the protest which often is based on very legitimate grievances, certainly in Bosnia it is.

My sympathies are entirely on the side of the poor people who are demonstrating, I would not encourage them to destroy their own country in the illusory search for a better life, because that is not going to take them anywhere. But certainly I understand their feelings. They have rights to be outraged. But you see, nobody talks over there in Bosnia, nobody talks about the real root cause of the miserable conditions of these workers and young people and so on and so forth, it is the imposition of western neoliberal policies which destroyed their economies, destroyed their societies…

Robles: In the first place.

That is the real culprit. So do they really think that they are going to get any “assistance” from western countries who are themselves deeply in trouble.

But of course since the media is completely controlled, many people, if not most are not even aware of that. They still think that in Western Europe and other western countries life is like it was 30 or 50 years ago. So they are actually unaware of changes and the trends. If they were, I think they would look at their prospects within the European Union and the western alliances in general much more critically.

But anyway if you look at the direct causes of that economic and social conditions that are oppressing them, it is the imposition of western inspired policies. But the local elite, the commentators and the people in general do not seem to get that. So many of them are looking for the remedy in the West which is where the disease came from. That is a paradox.

Robles: Yeah. If you could comment on President Dodik, so as I understand his policies are to unify Serbian space?

Karganovic: Well, based on what he said today as a matter of fact, he said that even if the Republic of Srpska opted for independence, it would continue to be a separate political entity and would not draw in Serbia. Whether that is just a political statement or a genuine reflection of the way he feels, I really don't know.

But I would say that the best policy would be to take it one step at the time – the first step is to run away from Bosnia as quickly as possible, to get rid of this unnatural and unworkable union with the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina which is being maintained by force and pressure from the West.

Other regions are given a free hand to secede like Kosovo for example, but the Republic of Srpska is denied even the thought of seceding even though it would be probably in its best interests to do that and certainly it is the wish of the overwhelming majority of the people. So it is clearly the application of double standards at work.

Robles: I see. Would you agree that the EU will do anything to stop, or to oust, Dodik because of his orientation towards Russia?

Karganovic: Absolutely. I think that they will try to do everything they can to undermine him. And just to point out to you, that few days ago when the violence was at its most intense, the High Representative in Bosnia, Valentin Inzko, who is from Austria, gave an interview to a Viennese newspaper, the Courier, where he said that the Dayton Agreement was good when it came to ending the war, but that it is obsolete now and that the new solution has to be implemented and that if the violence continued then it might be possible that the international peace keeping contingent in Bosnia might need reinforcement and might be used to impose order. So that is a pretty obvious threat.

They are inciting violence from below and they are contemplating the use of force from above to impose the synthetic solution that they envisaged and which obviously is best in their interests, not in the interests of the people of Bosnia.

Robles: In other words those were code words to “bring in the troops.”

Karganovic: Yes. That is the way I interpret it.

Robles: About Ukraine, I'd like your comment on the authorities, what seems to me and I think it seems to a lot of people who are watching the situation: why haven't they cracked down?

Karganovic: That is incomprehensible to me. I would like to hope that the Government of President Yanukovich is cooperating closely with Moscow and that Moscow knows more about the situation on the ground than I do and that it is giving correct tactical advice to Mr. Yanukovich. That is the best case scenario that I can think of.

The other scenario is that Yanukovich is simply an incompetent fool. So between the two I hope it is the first scenario.

Robles: I think the Ukrainian people and I think that he made very, very proper and normal decision when they just looked at the numbers and they figured that if they joined the Customs Union over 7 years Ukraine would bring in about $100 billion in the same seven year period where they would bring in $1 billion by joining the EU. It is just a simple economic decision that was good for the country, yeah?

Karganovic: Yes. And he is now paying the political price for making that decision.

Robles: Only because in the West they are so anti-Russian I think they have gone insane. I don't know what it is anymore. They are definitely not interested in peace, definitely not interested in development, definitely not interested in the economic well-being of all of us together as we could all work together and make a wonderful world, but..

Karganovic: Well, I should hope so. But political elites are rarely interested in the well-being of anybody but themselves.

Robles: Exactly.

Karganovic: And what you are saying fits in with that analysis I believe.

Robles: Yeah. Predictions or what would you say to people who want to stop anything from getting worse? Where do you see that going? Do you think they are going to intensify their efforts? Or do you think they are going to back off?

Karganovic: Well, that is a tough question. The orchestrators of the color revolution..they come back over and over again. They have their objectives and they are pursuing them.

But of course when you have opposed interests, you are on one side and your opponents are on the other, your opponent is going to pursue his objectives and interests and you have to pursue yours and defend yourself.

So, you just have to analyze the situation and make the right moves to protect what you hold dear, in this case the independence or the autonomy of the Republic of Srpska and the chance for its people to lead a peaceful and independent life, independent in the sense of being able to make their own basic decisions.

So if that is your objective then you have to work hard to educate them, I think that is the most important thing right now about the threat of a color revolution. They have to understand how it works, the mechanism, so they can recognize the tricks when they see them and not fall for them. That is I think fundamental.

The other thing is security arrangements have to be made. I'm not of course competent to say what exactly should be done but certainly things like what happened in Russia, the law that regulates the activities of these phony NGOs, that is urgently needed in the Republic of Srpska and I believe that the government is thinking of asking the legislature to pass such a law. That would be a very good step in the right direction and so on and so forth, and you have to keep a vigilant eye on the activities of these subversive groups and you have to inform the public, because a public made aware of the threat is immunized against it.

These color revolutions are phony mass movements and they can succeed only when they can successfully act under a false flag of social concern, they pick out whatever the biggest grievance is at the moment and they pretend to support the people who are aggrieved but really they are out to manipulate for their own agenda. People have to be made aware of that.

Once they understand it, the whole scheme crashes like a lead balloon. And I think so far we have seen that in the Republic of Srpska and I am happy about that. But I'm not putting my guard down, it is not over yet.

Robles: No, it is not. Ok, if we could in closing, I'd like to ask your reaction to this scenario: pretend we are in Washington DC, right? There is a mass protest, right? And in flies for example; Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, for example. And he starts handing out pancakes with sausages, or something, or doughnuts to the protestors.

Karganovic: He would be declared a persona non grata and put on the next plane out of the country. And that is exactly what the Ukrainian Government should have done a long time ago with the western agitators who were coming in a continues stream to Kiev to stir things up.

Robles: And now just for our American listeners: this happens, then all of a sudden all these demonstrators, they are burning tires, they are running on the streets and they unfurl banners in the Russian language. Can you picture that happening? What would happen then?

Karganovic: Well, I think the American people would not take kindly to such a development. There would be a huge outpouring of revulsion at that type of interference in the internal affairs of the US. And that would be entirely proper and of course Russia would never do such a thing because the Russian Government has a firm position of respecting the sovereignty of other countries.

Robles: That is right!

Karganovic: And this is a pure hypothesis, but if it were to happen, it would very much perturb the American people and rightly so.

Robles: So why are the Russian people and the Serbian people and the Ukrainian people – why are we supposed to swallow this? And I'd like to finish on that.

Karganovic: You don't have to swallow it. You are at liberty to react appropriately and to tell these intruders: get out! That is my message to them.

Robles: That is a very good message! Ok, thank you very much, sir. A very good message, thank you, sir. It was a pleasure speaking with you. I appreciate it.

Karganovic: Same here. Hasta luego me llamas cuando quieres.

Robles: Esta bien, gracias.

Karganovic: Ok, bye-bye.

Robles: Bye-bye, take care.

You were listening to an interview with Stefan Karganovic. He is the president of the Srebrenica Historical Project. That was part 3 of a longer interview. You can find the rest of this interview on our website at voiceofrussia.com. Thank you very much for listening and as always we wish you the best wherever in the world you may be.

 

 

Last Update: 07/16/2017 18:40 +0300

 

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