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John Robles

Articles and Interviews by John Robles From July 04, 2014 to July 15, 2014


On this page you will find interviews with, and articles by: Oksana Sazonova, John Robles, Willy Wimmer Former Vice President of the Parliamentary Assembly of the OSCE, Stephen Karganovic President of the Srebrenica Historical Project

4 July, 18:32

International Humanitarian Organizations Refuse to Aid Civilians Fleeing Ukrainian Warzone

Oksana Sazonova

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The number of people who have left Ukraine since the western-backed coup is now approaching half a million. These are people who have left their homes and everything they had and everything they owned, to flee the punitive military operations being conducted against them by Kiev. Radio VR interviewed Oksana Sazonova, a humanitarian worker helping refugees in Rostov.

Oksana Szaonova

Hello! This is John Robles, I'm speaking with Oksana Sazonova, she is a coordinator with the volunteer movement Peaceful Skies (http://vk.com/republic_novorossia) and a journalist working with the refugees from the Donetsk and the Lugansk People’s Republics.

Robles: Hello Oksana, how are you this morning?

Sazonova:Hi, thank you.

Robles: I'm really interested to hear about the situation with the refugees coming out of Ukraine. And I think it is very important for a Western audience to hear witness reports, like from yourself, as to what is really happening there. Can you give us some of the details about what the situation is like for people right now in Lugansk, in Slavyansk and in Donbas in general?

Sazonova:Yes, now, the situation with the refugees staying here in the Rostov region is rather quiet, because from the border is practically closed and people can’t see even come here if they want, because of the fights near the border, yesterday and this night. But about a week or maybe two or three weeks ago, we were getting about 10,000 or 15,000 people every day, managing.

Most of them are women with babies, with little children, and they just come here in Russia and they have nowhere to go. They just cross the border and they stay in… our tent camps here, and to wait here for our officials to come and to take them somewhere else.

Robles: I see. Now you say the border is now closed. I just want to make this very clear; the border is closed by the Ukrainian side, right?

Sazonova:It depends on the customs. Somewhere by the Ukrainians, somewhere by Russians, because of the fights near the border, but if some people somehow come, because it is very hard to, they can let them go to Russia.

Robles: They can?

Sazonova:Yes, they can, but there are very few people because of these fights.

Robles: I see. There were the reports that we had about 450,000 people, at least, refugees from Ukraine. Can you verify those numbers?

Sazonova:These are the official numbers. I didn’t count people at the customs, but I believe that these are real numbers because we were very busy. And I remember these days, when we had such a stream from Ukraine, I had hundreds of calls every day, they were calling me from the border at any time. And now it is very hard to find accommodation for them here in the Rostov Region. We had hundreds of houses, free flats, which people could give them.

Robles: So, ten to fifteen thousand people a day. For how long did that go on?

Sazonova:For about two or three weeks.

Robles: That’s a lot of people! You’ve mentioned that it is mostly women and children. The junta in Kiev, they are trying to say they are fighting an anti-terrorist operation. Just the fact that women and children are fleeing in terror for their lives tells me that that is a false claim. Are these people really under threat, these women and children?

Sazonova:I should say that some full families also tried to flee from Ukraine, but the Ukrainian army doesn’t let the men go, because they have the military operation and the men should serve in the army. So, they tried to leave Ukraine. For example, he has several children or his wife is pregnant, how can she go alone?

Robles: The women and children are really in danger for their lives, right?

Sazonova:Of course! And there can be shooting and even bombing even at the customs and even on the Russian territory. As you know, there were some bombs falling even here in Russia.

Robles: Our western listeners, they are trapped in the western media bubble. They don’t hear any of this. Can you tell us about the attacks on the border points? And your idea why doesn’t the Ukraine junta want these people to leave the country?

Sazonova:There were several attempts of bombing here, at the customs here in the Rostov Region. I personally know a young woman who has three children and she tried to flee to Rostov and she under shooting in Ukraine, in her native city and after that even at the customs.

After that the director of a camp at the border came to take his family in Rostov, and he took her also, because there was shooting even in the Russian territory. I personally saw the customs which were bombed, at the Russian side. There are two of them, in Gukovo town and in Novoshakhtinsk.

Robles: There was no reason for the Ukrainian military to bomb the customs checkpoints, was there?

Sazonova:Of course! Maybe they want these customs points to be closed, maybe they want people to be scared and not to flee to Russia. From what people say, the Ukrainian army just tries to make people panic.

Even when they are shooting in the Donetsk and the Lugansk People’s Republics it is just for panic. There are not too much victims, it is not really for killing people. They just shoot at everything, just for people to hear the shooting, to hear these bombings, to be scared and not to flee to Russia…

Robles: So that they agree to live under the Bandera Junta. Because these people don’t want to live under a fascist illegal government, right?

Robles: Because these people don’t want to live under a fascist illegal government, right?


Robles: So, they are going to terrorize the people so they are quiet. It is horrible, I think. Now, there is a state of emergency yesterday that was declared in the Volgograd region. In Rostov, is there a state of emergency there? What is the situation like?

Sazonova:We are trying to get our refugees from the Rostov Region to other regions. There are too much of them and the Rostov Region is not so big. But most of people don’t want to leave our region, because it is close to the border, it is close to Ukraine where they have left their relatives.

There are really some cases when, we tent camps near the border and they live only there, they don’t go to Rostov or to other cities, and when there is no fighting, no bombing, they just go on foot to their hometown in Ukraine, do something there and come back to Russia.

Robles: To be clear, we are talking about Rostov-on-Don or we are talking about Rostov?


Robles: Just for our listeners in case they look at the map. I’d like to get you opinion on the so-called “international humanitarian organizations” who keep denying the fact that there is a humanitarian catastrophe going on right there. You are working with these people, you see it, you’ve seen what was happening, what is your reaction and what would you say to those Western organizations that claim to be humanitarian?

Sazonova:I really think that now we: young people from Russia, volunteers, do the job of these international organizations. We do everything for these people. We give them accommodation, we give them food and everything they need. And when these people come and what they say about what is happening in their native cities…I used to live in the Ukraine, I know these cities and I just can’t believe that such things can happen there. It is like the Middle East or something like that. And people come, for example a family with children and see a bus that was bombed and bloodied, or maybe they see people with guns on the street or for example, my granny works at a lyceum…

Robles: I’m sorry she worked where?

Sazonova: Like a University and several times these people with Kalashnikovs came to her.

My granny personally saw the bombing of the administration building in Lugansk. She personally saw these airplanes, these bombs and now a forest near our house, where I used to live, is on fire.

Robles: I’d like to get into a very serious topic. I think even some Russians don’t really believe how bad it is in Lugansk and in Donetsk, and in Odessa etc, because I’ve had many people who have come from there and we are seeing journalists killed. People that are actually there have told me, and what you are telling me also verifies it, that it is even much worse than what the Russian media is giving us. So, can you tell us more specifics about how bad it really is down there?

Sazonova:You know, there are Russians who say that the Russian media wants to dramatize the situation. But what people say, it is even worse. For example…

Robles: I'm sorry, that’s exactly what I was talking about, because there are accusations that we are seeing… all this horrible stuff, but what I'm hearing is even worse than what we are seeing.

Sazonova:Yes. Just now I got a message from a family from Kramatorsk. They have a little child. And just before I got this message. They had bombing and it was at night but it was like day with fires and everything. I also have already told about a woman with three children who tried to flee and were under shooting (fire). With three little children without a man.

Robles: They were shot at?

Sazonova:She is alive, she was saved. And people who come, they say that they don’t know where they will have bombing next time or shooting. They hear it everywhere, they hear it in empty buildings, in empty regions of the cities. They can’t let their children walk alone, they don’t let children go to kindergartens because there can be some terrorist event.

Robles: Who are the terrorists in Ukraine? Is it the Right Sector and the Kolomoisky militias, and the Ukrainian so-called National Guard or is it the people in Donbas who are trying to defend their families and their homes and their land?

Sazonova:You can come to Rostov region and see these terrorists – mothers, children “separatists”.

About the real terrorists, I think that the biggest terrorist and separatist, especially separatist, is Kiev.

People who come here say: we didn’t want real independence before, we wanted to have an autonomic republic, like Crimean has before. But after they started this war against the people, they say: we don’t want to be in a country that wages war against us now.

Robles: At the beginning all they wanted was federalization and to recognize that: “Okay, you can speak Russian”, right? And the lunatic Nazis in Kiev said: “Okay, we are going to kill you.

Sazonova:Yes, it is something like that. And really, people in Donbas, before this war, before Maidan, before everything, they could speak Ukrainian.

Okay! They speak Russian! But they could speak Ukrainian, they could watch television in the Ukrainian language. I also understand Ukrainian very well, but I speak Russian. Now they really hate the Ukrainian language and everything connected with Ukraine, but it is only after the war was started.

Robles: Isn’t that understandable? I mean, I myself never really had any bad feelings towards Ukrainians. I did have some bad racist meetings with some Ukrainians back in the 90s, but I wouldn’t say that is the whole nation. But now, I feel kind of trepidation when I hear the word ‘Ukrainian’.

Sazonova:Yes. They didn’t like the western Ukrainian even before. I'm a Russian. If I come there with the Russian passport, it could have been dangerous for me even before this whole thing. I'm not saying that they will surely kill me, but, for example, they could refuse to serve me in a café or in a shop. Such things happened even before, and we didn’t like them, they didn’t like us.

Robles: Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about, because I'm a little dark-skinned, I was refused service in a hotel in Poland, near the Ukrainian border once, but anyway. You’ve got the same racist people there. What would you say to the Americans who say the Right Sector, Kolomoisky, the Union of Ukrainian Nationalists and Svoboda and all these Nazi animals that are in power. What would you say to the Americans who say they are the defenders of democracy trying to free Ukraine?

Sazonova:To the Nazis I can only say one thing: they should remember how the Nazis finished in 1945.

And to the Americans and maybe some Europeans I want to say that if they can’t even find Ukraine on the map, I'm not sure that they really understand what Ukraine is.

Can they find Donetsk or Lugansk on the map? Can they find even Kiev on the map or Lvov? And can they understand what the term ‘the Ukrainian Russian’ means? This si the terms Ukrainians in Donbass used many many years ago.

If they really support democracy, they should understand both sides of the conflict. They should use maybe several resources of information, if they really support democracy. I can’t say what democratic actions of Kiev they can name.

Really, there is no humanitarian corridor, there is not support to the refugees from Donbas. And even if they flee to Ukraine, they have not support there.

And just one question that we volunteers ask: if Russia is the aggressor in the eastern Ukraine, why do they flee to Russia and not to Ukraine?

Robles: Great question! The Psaki woman, the spokesperson for the State Department, she was told about the refugees. She says: “The refugees running from Russia?” What would you say about that?! They are trying to say there are refugees running from Russia into Ukraine.

Sazonova: And we also really laughed at her (supposed) comment about Rostov Mountain. Really, it was great! Now we want to call our organization “Rostov Mountain”.

Robles: Rostov mountain? Okay. Keep up the good work!

Sazonova: Thank you very much.

This is John Robles, you were listening to an interview with Oksana Sazonova. She is a coordinator with the volunteer movement Peaceful Skies, a journalist and a humanitarian worker in Russia. She is assisting the refugees coming out of Ukraine.

Peaceful Skies

If you are interested in helping the refugees from Ukraine you can contact Oksana personally at (+7) or (8) 909-439-5988. You can also contact Oksana and learn more about the refugee crisis on V-Kontakte (http://vk.com/oksannka) and Facebook or on the official page of the organization Peaceful Skies on vk.com. There is also information about the crisis available on the official site of the Russian Federal Migration Service.

Disclaimer: In publishing the above information the Voice of Russia does not officially endorse nor is it associated with Oksana Sazonova nor the organization Peaceful Skies and is therefore not responsible for any of their activities.



6 July, 00:49

Kiev "Declares" War on Russia

John Robles

The dangerous bellicose rhetoric and saber rattling declarations by the Kiev authorities continue to reach newer and higher levels with the new minister of defense wasting no time to issue yet another wild and dangerous statement. During his confirmation hearing to the post of defense minister in front of the Ukrainian post-coup parliament Valeriy Heletey boldly declared that there would be "… a victory parade in Ukraine's Sevastopol." Such a statement, for all intents and purposes, might be seen as being tantamount to a declaration of war against Russia.

Moved to Ukraine page


Killing Russian Journalists in Ukraine is an Organized Effort

Willy Wimmer

Former Vice President of the Parliamentary Assembly of the OSCE

Download audio file  8 July, 23:58

There is fear spreading through Europe of the specter of war, fuelled by aggressive war propaganda by the West in their attempt to demonize Russia. In Germany, for the first time, people do not trust their mass media. All over Europe appearing strange fascist parties. The blind drive by the US in pursuit of their geopolitical objectives in Europe and in Ukraine has placed the entire European continent in an unstable and extremely dangerous position.

Willy Wimmer, the former Vice President of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe speaks with John Robles about these issues and more.

Hello sir, how are you this fine evening?

Hello! Everything is okay here but not worldwide.

Unfortunately! A lot of things going on! You wrote a very interesting article recently in German regarding, what you say, is an "ultimatum" by the West towards Russia. Can you tell us about that?

Yes! We learned last weekend that the European Union had addressed, as I see it, an ultimatum to Russia to continue with serious negotiations regarding the events in the Ukraine and if they wouldn't continue to have serious negotiations, there would be serious economic sanctions to Russia. This was in a tone which I never heard before. And the way to address an ultimatum to a neighboring state is quite unusual, quite unusual with this special attitude.

When we go back to the summer of 1914, when the first world war started, we had the same language. And therefore, I was in fear, as many Germans were in fear, because of the events in these days.

What in particular are you alarmed with?

The way we get information about the events in Ukraine and the Russian leadership is also quite unusual, compared to difficult times we had in the past.

Usually the German mainstream media are more or less objective, but in the case of Ukraine, it is attitude is to condemn Russia and to condemn the Russian President Putin. The attitude in which this is being done is not the attitude of German publications we had in the past. And, therefore, people are scared because of the new way in which German TV and press address issues in the neighboring countries.

Who do you see as being "the hand behind" this aggressive propaganda? Some people are calling it "war propaganda".

There is in preparation of difficult events. We had it for the first time when the war against Yugoslavia started, when they attacked President Milosevic in a very personal way and when they attacked the Serbs. And we had the same situation before entering the war against Iraq, when they addressed Saddam Hussein in this way. And, therefore, people think that we are now entering a similar situation. But for the first time people here in my country, they don't trust the mainstream media any longer. You can read it in the articles they write to these newspapers, there you find the real attitude of the German people, and it is completely different.

If we can go back in history for a minute. I know it is a sensitive topic for the German people. Do you see that media manipulation equivalent to what happened before Hitler came to full power?

I addressed this issue on Russia Today. I have a special understanding of this issue. And this is not only a question for the German population; it is a question for the German Government.

We had some years ago a Government in Austria where right-wing people entered the government and the first reaction of the European Union was to have the Austrians being banned from the developments in the European Union. At that time, they took it very serious.

And the question for me and for the others is why they are accepting the right-wing people in the Ukrainian Government, or right-wing forces on the streets, also right-wing forces who have been involved in the killings of hundred or more people on the Maidan Square. And this we can't understand. And the question is: Why are they so quiet in these days?

We have a right-wing danger. As we saw it in the European elections, we have strange parties in France, we have strange parties in Great Britain. And, therefore, I think it is a question of good common political sense to be against these forces. And the question is: Why are these forces not banned, when it comes to Ukraine?

That is a very good question! I would like to get your opinion but first, I would like to give you my opinion and then see what you think about it: as far as I understand, the CIA and the military industrial complex in the United States have taken control of the Government. They will ally themselves with anyone, as long as it serves their goal of defeating an enemy. This time the target is Russia. There is not anyone else who is going to fight Russia or that they can use against Russia. And that is why I think they are supporting these Nazis. Do you agree with that?

Yes! There is a good understanding here that forces in the United States or in other countries, they act together with those who are willing to act against the common enemy. And there are strange words in Germany about such an attitude. And, therefore, it is complicated.

We know for years that the right-wing forces in Germany are financially subsidized out of the US, out of Denmark, out of the Netherlands, out of France and out of Spain. So there is obviously a development on the Western side of our common continent, which is dangerous not only when you look into history.

When we first had the indications about these groups in Kiev, it would have been necessary for the German Government to go public with everything they knew about these forces, to address the Parliament and to address the European Union to act in a common way against these forces.

It is a disaster that with the political support of the European Union and also with the political support of our own Government, they go hand-in-hand with the Government which has ranked and filed these people. And, therefore, it is a tragedy.

What do you think is going to happen in the near future and down the line?


The US had promised President Gorbachev not to expand NATO to the east. And the problem has been that Gorbachev trusted the Americans. In such a way you destroy all kinds of trust.

I was the one in the former German Cabinet who made the proposal to Chancellor Helmut Kohl to stay with Germany after unification with Germany to stay in NATO, but not to have foreign troops on the former East German soil. So, this proposal was accepted by Bush and Gorbachev. And you can read about this proposal in all the agreements concerning the German unification.

We had a unique understanding not to exploit the developments against the former Soviet Union and not to expand NATO.

And we saw in the '90s what really happened and this was not in accordance with our understanding. I remember very well when Kohl in the early 90's returned from visits to the United States, he always addressed the Parliamentary Group of the CDU/CSU and he was always in a strange feeling about his visit to Washington.

He told us: when I visited Washington, people in Congress told me; "We have won the third world war". And Kohl was of the opinion that: "… you can't treat the Russians in this way. These are a great people and they deserve honesty."

And this explains the whole situation which started in the early 90's and it is not ending only with Ukraine.

I participated in a conference in May 2000 in Bratislava organized by the US State Department. There were high-ranking people from Central and Eastern Europe- prime ministers, foreign ministers, defense ministers and so on. And the American State Department's representatives explained to the audience that the idea of the US is to draw a line between the Baltic Sea, between Riga and Odessa in the Black Sea and go from there to Diyarbakır in the eastern part of Turkey.

Everything which is west of this line is under the US control and domination. And everything which is east of this line doesn't matter to the West. This is the kind of thinking which is not acceptable for Western Europeans.

After the WW II many Nazis went to the US, something like 40,000, I believe, they founded a lot of programs in the CIA. Do you see any correlation?

When you look on the today's situation, it is obvious that the forces in the US are eager to get control over the Russian resources of oil and gas, and everything else. And there is an ongoing interest of these US forces to get in control of everything which is on Russian soil. And the former US State Secretary Ms. Albright made it very public that what is on the Russian soil, it can't belong to one country.

There is obviously an understanding which has the historic roots, which go back to the situation after the First World War.

There is a common understanding among historians that you can't explain Adolf Hitler without mentioning Henry Ford. And the most complicated problem in my understanding has been the efforts of Henry Kissinger in the late 90's to destroy the international rule of law, and to replace it by the American-led international law structure.

We saw it at the beginning of the Yugoslav war. It was an effort to destroy the UN Charter, to destroy the Helsinki Charter, to destroy the Vienna Conventions on diplomatic negotiations.

So, this is an ongoing thing and we are not at the end yet.

What do you think is the biggest danger right now facing world stability?

As long as the big shots are not willing to negotiate, and as long as they are creating the president of another country as a hostile individual, the world will continue to be a dangerous place.

I lived in Cold War times and I had been the Minister of Defense for the latest NATO exercise of the Cold War. I know what war means for my country or would mean for my country, and what it would mean for all of Europe. And, therefore, as long as we keep going back to the imperialistic attitude, there can't be a good solution.

As the former Vice President of the Parliamentary Assembly of the OSCE, what is your opinion on the killing of journalists, on the refugee situation in Ukraine and then the Russian reaction to everything that is going on there?

The killing of journalists is an organized effort to continue with the control of the mainstream media in the West.

For some weeks the only chance to get a fair picture of the situation in Ukraine on TV has been Russia Today, France 24 or Al Jazeera.

When you kill Russian journalists, you see efforts to maintain the dominance in propaganda. It is not a coincidence that journalists are killed. It is a combined effort to do so. And, therefore, it is an attack on democracy, that's for sure.

The refugee crisis in the eastern part of the Ukraine and in the western part of Russia, it is disastrous when you see the State Department officials, how they behave when it comes to the refugee numbers.

Here we know that more than 400,000 had to flee their homes in the eastern part of the Ukraine. This has to be stopped. And the latest negotiations between President Putin, President Poroshenko and Chancellor Merkel and President Hollande, we already can foresee the efforts being undertaken by London and Washington to destroy this productive effort.

With regards to President Putin, it is disastrous and it leads to a conflict, if you blame the president of another country in the way as it had been done here for weeks and months in the past. And we are all familiar with the words of Hillary Clinton and of others against President Putin.

We are now in the 25th year after the collapse of the Berlin Wall and here in Germany nobody has an understanding of blaming President Putin or the Russian people in the way that Hillary Clinton did it.



9 July, 16:26

Monstrosity: Washington Justifies Airstrikes on Civilians in Eastern Ukraine

John Robles

There is almost no attention being paid to the humanitarian catastrophe that is occurring in Ukraine in the western media. On a daily basis the issue is ignored, downplayed, obfuscated or denied by officials, organizations and the media. Those who are bombing their own citizens into oblivion continue to act with malfeasance and complete impunity as they carry out their war crimes and their merciless punitive operation against their own civilians.

Kiev authorities continue to act with complete disregard for any law whatsoever as they kill women and children and conduct air strikes on civilians, while those sitting comfortably in their plush offices across the Atlantic continue to support Kiev and not a dissenting word is heard. Even after the now infamous US State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki stated that Kiev has the right to conduct airstrikes on civilians, using the logic of territorial integrity and national unity, not a single word of protest was voiced. Is it now official US policy to bomb civilians? Or is it okay only if it is done by a coup government that they have installed?

Ukrainian crisis is a blatant open subversion of a state by the US, installation and support of a government bent on the eradication of those who oppose them. Ukraine is dealing with results of the failed policies and the degradation of the state that has been completely illegitimate since September 11, 2001.

As the US continues to support Kiev we are witnessing the complete and total moral bankruptcy, a plunge-of-no-return into the depths of open criminal illegality and the spread of the hence hidden doctrine of genocide now being wrought on the developed world.

The United States, a nuclear superpower, is supporting an illegitimate junta carrying out the brutal military "punishment" of entire populations as they attempt to "clear" the eastern part of their own country. If Americans do not care about the millions of people worldwide that the post 9-11 leaderships have used the US military and NATO to eradicate, then they should at least care that their government now justifies using airstrikes against civilians. With that single statement by Jen Psaki, who reflects official policy, it is now clear that absolutely "anything goes" and it will just take one more false flag attack to turn that logic around and make it US policy against its own civilians.

According to Yulia Tymoshenko there were almost 8 million ethnic Russians and Russian speakers in Ukraine who needed to be eradicated with a nuclear weapon, 8 million people who Kiev wants to get rid of. In a country of approximately 45 million that number is close to one fifth of the population. If we add to that number the Ukrainians opposed to the junta and those members of the population who are not openly taking part in the rise of the nazi state or those who would rather have a real democratically elected government, the numbers could easily grow to over 80 percent of the population.

Earlier the views held by the Ukrainian nationalists amounted to less 3 percent of the population. Nevertheless, since the loss of Crimea and the punitive military operations that number has reduced to about 10 percent. As such it is unimaginable that a government holding the views of only a fraction of the population can be called legitimate.

In the context of the US where less than 1 percent of the population that controls the wealth and the bodies of government and industry, it is perfectly understandable why they consider the Ukrainian authorities legitimate. Also given the fact that the current Kiev government was literally installed by the US after the US/NATO/EU backed armed coup, their blind support will be guaranteed to the point where the US provokes a war with Russia. It is at this point that the US will refuse to support Ukraine as the Americans would in no way support risking precious American lives to prop up a nazi regime and even with the current hawks in Washington and the policies of brinkmanship, the US would not start World War III.

The US Department of Homeland Security already has plans in place to intern hundreds of millions of Americans "in the event of widespread public dissent against a war". There are also an array of analysts and experts that see the US directly attempting to provoke World War III. Hopefully they are wrong.

The humanitarian catastrophe in Ukraine is the campaign of dehumanization that the junta has carried out while US is allowing it to continue "clearing" the east. Kiev army is bombing and killing civilians, women, children, the elderly and men who are attempting to protect their families and homes. We know that Washington has long ago lost its humanity but have we? Is it really okay to annihilate entire cities because they people share a different view? Try to imagine and put a face and a name on half a million people who have had to flee their homes and countries in terror. Then try to imagine their families and friends, their homes, their possessions, their jobs and schools and everything they loved, is it difficult? Now try to imagine the collective hopes and dreams and aspirations of half a million people. Or is it too much?

Can you even imagine 500 thousand people? That is about how many would fill 12 Wrigley Fields or Juventus Stadiums to capacity, or perhaps 10 Rogers Centers in Toronto, 9 Yankee Stadiums or 5 Wembley Stadiums. Now imagine that all of those people have been targeted for extermination. Well, that is exactly what is happening in Ukraine.

With each passing day, with each human life extinguished or destroyed and with each and every bomb dropped or shell launched on innocent civilians in the east of what was Ukraine for the egregious crime of being opposed to a nazi junta, the United States which continues to openly support the forces carrying out these atrocities, is proving to the world that it is a state gone mad with its own power.

Those responsible for crimes against humanity should face justice. Not just for the people of Donbass who must be saved, but for all of the peoples of the world who have suffered at the hands of the evil empire. There can be nothing wrong with calling for justice and rule of law and anyone who does not do so is in collusion with criminals, murderers and now nazis killing and bombing and using airstrikes against civilians.

An egregious provocation was carried out by the US government against the son of a Russian lawmaker Valery Seleznyov. Roman Seleznyov was arrested in Maldives and then secretly transported to Guam in what can only be described as a kidnapping. Although the US unilaterally regulated onto themselves the role of "world’s policeman" they have no legal authority to kidnap citizens of other countries in third countries and transport them wherever they desire. There is no international authority in existence that gives the US the right to do this.

The targeting of Roman for "hacking", a ridiculous charge against the son of an esteemed parliamentarian and another egregious criminal act by the US Government, clearly shows how the US will use "crimes" that are almost impossible to prove "hacking" as a pretext for arrest and is a continuation of the war the US is waging on hacktivists, journalists and information warriors. The US has demonized "hackers" to the point that they are seen as the equivalent to terrorists and have even been approved for military targeting by the US. Hence the US has abrogated unto itself the right to extra-judicially execute without trial not only "terrorists" but in coded language, hackers, hacktivists and even journalists.

The open killing of reporters in Ukraine, the ridiculous charges by Kiev, as well as US sanctions against Russian journalist Dmitry Kiselyov, the continued tragic sequestration of Julian Assange in the embassy in London, the complete disappearance of all hacktivists from Anonymous and the outrageous media manipulation by the US are signs that we are involved in a war against an illegal power whose greatest enemy is the truth.



11 July, 03:09

Srebrenica: 19-Year-Blueprint for US Intervention

Stephen Karganovic President of Srebrenica Historical Project

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On July 11, 1995, two NATO warplanes bombed Serbian forces, advancing on Srebrenica. But due to the bad weather and the fact that Serbian forces were holding French and Dutch prisoners of war, NATO called off what was to be a massive bombing campaign. Late in the afternoon, Serbian general Mladic and other commanders entered into Srebrenica. They had won, for the moment. This loss by NATO could not accept and through indirect manipulation and false representation of the facts, US and NATO slandered the Serbs and successfully changed the presentation of a legal military operation. Radio Voice of Russia spoke to Stephen Karganovic on the history of Srebrenica in this special interview on the nineteenth anniversary of those events.

Hello, this is John Robles, I am speaking with Stephen Karganovic, he is the president of the Srebrenica Historical Project.

Robles : Hello sir, how are you this evening?

Karganovic: I am fine, thank you very much.

Robles : We have an anniversary of a very tragic event coming up on July, 11. Some might say it was a part of or the beginning of the rule of international lawlessness and wanton impunity by the architects of Yugoslavia’s and Serbia’s destruction by the US and NATO. Why do you think that is important and give us some of the history, please?

Karganovic: Yes, it is definitely what you have just said and it has become the starting point for a process in international relations. I wouldn’t quite say in international law because, as you correctly put it, the process involves the breakdown of law, lawlessness in fact. What happened was that Srebrenica became a propaganda paradigm that was then used to justify military interventions under the guise of the “right to protect” and as a result it served as the rationale for a couple of very destructive military adventures: Kosovo in 1999, and Iraq, then Libya, and now in Syria, and who knows what is next, and the basic rationale for all these adventures was “We must prevent another Srebrenica”.

Well, the ironic thing is that the death toll in Srebrenica, if you take it at its highest, would be about 8,000. And as you and your listeners, probably, know, the death toll in each of these interventions was far more than that. If you are talking about Syria, you can add another zero to the Srebrenica 8,000 and you probably still would not come close to the carnage that occurred there over the last three years. I just might remind you that it was motivated in large part by the presumed need to “prevent another Srebrenica” as the forces of the current president there supposedly were slaughtering their own people. Much the same thing happened in Libya. According to some estimates, the death toll in Libya was 40,000 or 50,000, a bit more modest, and needless to say in Iraq it was enormous. The figure is still controversial, but nobody puts it at less than 100,000 and some estimates go as far as a million, and so on and so forth.

Oh yes, let’s not forget Kosovo. There the death toll was relatively modest but you have to calculate the impact of depleted uranium bombs that were dispersed all over the country and that over the next couple of thousand years will be killing every living thing there, and people are already massively dying of cancer. So you can imagine that too should be attributed to the “humanitarian intervention” that was conducted there.

So Srebrenica has huge geopolitical implications. I am not saying that there was an idea to turn it into that, but it was an opportunistic move. The potential for Srebrenica, once it took shape as a propaganda concept, to serve in that role as the rationale for future “humanitarian interventions” was seen and seized upon. So that would be part of the answer to your question.

The other part is what actually happened in Srebrenica: there is no doubt that what happened was a massacre. That is not controversial. What is controversial - how many people were killed and – even more important – the legal character of the crime that was committed. As you and your listeners are aware, by now whenever the word “Srebrenica” is mentioned we are all indoctrinated to associate it with genocide. That is precisely the way it works, and in its geopolitical application that I mentioned earlier that is the key point. Whenever they get ready to bomb a country and take it over for its resources they say “Well, we have to prevent the genocide that is being perpetrated by the local rulers, so we have to remove them and install a group of people that would be friendly to us and willing to obey our orders”. And – of course – deliver the goods that we covet in that particular country.

So genocide is a very important point when you are talking about Srebrenica and it so happens that, the judgments of the Hague Tribunal takes place, notwithstanding, no evidence was produced for genocide after about half a dozen or more Srebrenica trials. So what we can say with a fair degree of certainty is that after a bitter inter-communal war in that part of Bosnia that lasted for about three years the Serbs took over Srebrenica, and some of them took the law into their own hands, so to speak, and decided to take revenge for all the people on their side that, previous to that, were murdered in raids that were conducted by the units of the Bosnian Muslim army that were operating from Srebrenica. That doesn’t justify a single murder, but it explains it in a far better way than the idea of genocide. There was no intention of exterminating Bosnian Muslims. The most that happened there was that neighbors were very angry at other neighbors and they decided to let them have it for what they had been doing to them over the previous three years. In three or four days they killed, we estimate, up to a thousand Muslim prisoners, which is without the slightest justification, but certainly it was not genocide and there is no forensic or any other type of evidence to support the figure of 8,000 executed prisoners that you hear about all the time.

Robles : What was the actual number, then?

Karganovic: We can only go by the forensic investigations that were conducted by experts of the Hague Tribunal, of the Prosecution, between 1996, beginning right after the massacre that occurred in 1995, and their exhumations of mass graves that went on until 2001. In that period they uncovered the physical remains of about 1,920 individuals. However, we then looked at the pattern of injury. That is very important because at the same time that this massacre of prisoners was going on another significant event was occurring as well. The division of the Bosnian Muslim army that was in Srebrenica was conducting a military breakout from Srebrenica to Muslim-held territory in Tuzla, which is about 60 kilometers away. Along their way they had many clashes with Serbian forces, which used guns and other implements of war, as they were entitled to do, against the military column. As a result of these clashes, thousands of Muslim soldiers and the civilians who were with them were killed, and I just want to make the point that when you have a mixed military-civilian column, the opposing army is entitled to shoot at it. That is not a war crime, it is a legitimate military operation, so everyone that was killed in the breakout of the Muslim army unit was a legitimate casualty, which sounds very bad, I know, in human terms, and it is, but in international law terms that is the way it is. What they have been doing, in effect, was to exhume the graves where the casualties from the fighting were buried and then they would use them to reinforce the numbers of those who were really executed, in order to boost the figure, essentially. So that’s what has been going on.

Robles : Thank you very much for that detailed answer. Now, would you characterize Srebrenica. Not by itself, but the entire situation surrounding it, as a blueprint for what we are seeing now in multiple countries, in particular in Ukraine?

Karganovic: Well, it is different and yet there are striking similarities.

Robles : But the thinking behind it. Unless it is just to destroy as many people as possible.

Karganovic: I think that destroying people is something that occurs naturally when you undertake such a brutal operation which aims only at achieving a certain political effect and doesn’t ask about the human cost. So yes, people will be killed, Muslims, Christians, whatever they may happen to be, and that is a huge tragedy. But to return to your original question as I understood it, Srebrenica in Bosnia has become a huge stumbling block to the reconciliation and peaceful coexistence of the ethnic and religious communities, mainly the Serbs and the Muslims. Croats are not a part of that because there were not any to speak of in that area during the war. So, by creating this narrative that Srebrenica signifies genocide of Muslims by Serbs, you can see how that makes it very difficult for the two communities to come together on any issue, and that is perfectly natural. How could you just calmly sit and have coffee with someone who has committed genocide on your family?

So that makes it very important to clarify what happened, not to minimize the crime – call it by its right name, put it in the proper perspective, and make sure that all sides are aware that they committed crimes in that particular area. Each community committed crimes against the other community and people should be punished as individuals for the crimes that they committed in both communities. And we should not try to impose on one community the burden of a particularly heinous crime just for political effect. And the political effect is pretty obvious: as long as they cannot get together on anything, you need a foreign arbitrator to keep them in check. So, Srebrenica is an example of how the classical “divide and rule” technique operates and in this particular case as long as Muslims hang on to the genocidal narrative they are never going to come to the same table with their Serbian neighbors and plan either a common future, or a civilized divorce, or whatever, although they can still be good neighbors, they can still cooperate and be on good terms even if they live in separate states instead of in a common Bosnian state. That is a completely separate issue. However, as long you have this burden of genocide that is not likely to happen. But what is very likely is that foreign tutelage, and foreign arbitration, and foreign interference in the internal interference and lives of these people is going to go on for a very, very long time and that is a tragedy because they need to seize control of their own destiny and to be masters in their own house.

Robles : Is there any realistic way that we can stop all this meddling? We are seeing it in the Ukraine all over again.

Karganovic: Of course, taking into account the local peculiarities, which they always do, that is roughly the scenario that is taking place in the Ukraine. In Ukraine you don’t have two completely different religions, not that Islam and Christianity are so completely different, in Ukraine you have varieties of the Christian religion. But people have been indoctrinated to exaggerate the differences and to downplay the similarities. As long as you brainwash them in those terms you can always use them as political pawns for your purposes.

You were listening to an interview with Stephen Karganovic. He is the President of the Srebrenica historical project. This is part 1 of a longer interview. You can find the rest of this interview on our website at voiceofrussia.com



13 July, 21:31

Number of Russia's Criminal Cases Against Kiev's Forces Continues to Increase

John Robles 

Since the beginning of the crisis in Ukraine the government of the Russian Federation, the Russian Armed Forces, the president of the Russian Federation and Russia's leaders have dealt with the threat to Russia's national security strictly within the guidelines of international and national law, in keeping with all international norms and conventions, within the framework of the United Nations and its charter and have maintained the moral and ethical high ground.

By strictly following Russia's obligations under international law and within the framework of the Russian Constitution, President Putin has struggled to reach a peaceful settlement to the upheaval which continues unabated on the territory of what was its closest neighbor and has handled the crisis from day one as a force for peace, stability and the protection of civilian lives.

Sadly, despite all of Russia's efforts the continued provocations, the shelling of Russian territory and the killing of Russian citizens, ethnic Russians in Ukraine and innocent civilians continues not only unabated but at an accelerated rate since the so-called election of Petr Poroshenko.

Latest Developments

According to the officials and reports from the scene at approximately 09:02 local time the city of Donetsk (a city in the Rostov Region of the Russian Federation) became the target of shelling from the Ukrainian army. Two private homes were damaged, an elderly woman was injured and the 47 year old father of four was killed instantly when a shell hit the garden of his home as he was sitting on the veranda.

After the arrival of investigators and journalists at the scene of the tragic murder, a Ukrainian Air Force fighter jet entered Russian airspace and launched an airstrike on a target reportedly on the Ukrainian side of the border. According to TV interviews of residents and witnesses at the scene, the Ukrainian aviation regularly violates Russian airspace in the area and many residents have been forced to abandon their homes.

Moscow has yet to issue a statement on the violations of its airspace by the Ukrainian Air Force but there is no doubt that the response will be harsh. Along with recent attacks on Russian Embassies, recent statements by the Minister of Defense of Ukraine and a relentless series of other provocations against the Russian Federation, such a violation of airspace and the bombing of Russian territory resulting in the killing of Russian citizens are clear acts of war against Russia. However despite the almost non-stop provocations form the Ukrainian side Russia continues to refuse to be drawn into the crisis militarily.

The Deputy Foreign Minister of the Russian Federation Grigory Karasin has promised a tough response stating that: "The incident is evidence of a profound escalation of danger for Russian citizens on Russian territory. Naturally, this action will not be left without a corresponding reaction. The talk with the Ukrainian side on this issue is going to be serious and tough. The incident once again confirms the need for the quickest end to bloodshed in east Ukraine and the resumption of talks within the contact group with the participation of all the warring sides in Ukraine," said the diplomat in a radio interview according to reports by Itar-Tass.

In a further escalation Itar-Tass also reports that: "On Saturday, July 12, the Ukrainian military fired at a Russian border guard squad in the Kuibyshev district of the Rostov Region on the Russian-Ukrainian border. The Russian border guards fired with their weapons in response, after which the shelling ceased," according to the spokesman for the regional border guard branch Vasily Malayev.

Russian Investigative Committee

Itar-Tass also reports that Russian investigators have launched a murder investigation and the related criminal probe into the shelling of a private home, according to Investigative Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin. He also said investigators are working on the scene to find out all the circumstances of the incident.

The Russian Investigative Committee has already opened dozens of criminal cases against figures in the junta in Kiev, soldiers, snipers, pilots and other who are engaged in the punitive military operations in the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics.

Near the end of June the investigative committee placed Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov and the head of Dnepropetrovsk's regional administration oligarch Igor Kolomoisky on international wanted lists. They are now wanted in all Interpol member states. The charges against them include: murder, the use of prohibited means and methods of warfare, the obstruction of professional activities of journalists, and abduction

A member of the military loyal to Kiev was also recently arrested after being caught without documents after illegally entering Russian territory. So far there is no word on what form of mission she was on. The Ukrainian, Nadezhda Savchenko, was charged with complicity in murder of reporters of the Russian state television and radio broadcasting company (VGTRK).

Federal Prosecutor's list

So far the Russian Investigative Committee has launched criminal investigations, filed charges or placed on international wanted list the following people as well: Igor Mazur, Valery Bobrovich, Dmitry Korchinsky, Andrey Tyagnibok, Oleg Tyagnibok, Dmitry Yarosh, Vladimir Mamalyga, Dmitry Yarosh, and others.

The Investigative Committee is continuing its work already have questioned at least 2,400 witnesses. Their work is aimed at establishing specific servicemen and members of military units of the National Guard of Ukraine and the Right Sector who are killing civilians. This includes pilots, gunners, snipers and those who have given and executed orders to conduct airstrikes, artillery shelling and the bombing of civilians and the destruction of towns in the south-east of Ukraine.

Russia intends to prosecute all officials, military officers and anyone directly taking part in the punitive operations without exception. This includes those who give orders and those who are funding the killing of civilians. In this regard, the Investigation

There can be no doubt that these fascist "heroes of Ukraine" who are "clearing out" the east of people they call "subhuman" and "insects" will have to answer for their war crimes and the murder of civilians. They these people are allowed to continue killing civilians is an abomination as is the fact that they continue to be fully supported by the United States government. Then again the fact that the government of a country founded on the genocide of the indigenous people which illegally continues to occupy their lands is supporting nazis who are killing civilians is not at all surprising and judging by the reaction from the West, it is perfectly normal.



13 July, 17:54

Roman Seleznev Kidnapped by US Agents, Whisked Away by CIA Rendition Flight

John Robles

Roman Seleznev kidnapped by US agents, whisked away by CIA rendition flight

© Photo: VESTI.Ru

The father of Roman Seleznev has offered a $50,000 reward for information regarding the arrest of his son in the Maldives, including any video or other evidence supporting the reports and witness statements that it was American agents that arrested, questioned and then transported his son to Guam. The case is another example of the United States and the CIA flaunting international laws and forcing countries to allow them free reign.

Americans involved

Roman Seleznev's common law wife Anna Otisko, who was with him at the airport when he was detained, described Roman's captors during an emotional press conference she gave to Russian media along with Roman’s father, Russian MP Valery Seleznev. She described how American CIA agents arrested and interrogated Roman. She said that the agents were clearly not from among the local population as they were Caucasian and spoke in clear American English. With tears in her eyes she described how she could hear the agents aggressively questioning Roman and how he repeatedly replied "No! No!" to their questions.

Other witnesses also report that a team of American agents was seen whisking Mr. Seleznev away to an awaiting private aircraft and treating him in a very aggressive and forceful manner. Witness statements contradict the official statements coming out of the Maldives that it was a completely local operation and that police were lawfully carrying out an Interpol red notice warrant. Given that local laws that require such suspects to be allowed a hearing in a court before extradition after which a proper order must be handed down were completely ignored, the case is completely identical of the detentions of Victor Bout and Constantin Yaroshenko.

CIA flight exposed

As with all CIA rendition operations the devil is in the details, and although the CIA always attempts to keep their infrastructure secret there are always clues left behind that an alert investigator can use to cross the "T"s and dot the "I"s, the rendition of Mr. Seleznev being no exception.

Mr. Seleznev was supposed to have taken TransAero flight UN 510 departing from Male International Airport in the Maldives at 11:55 to Moscow’s Vnukovo Airport but was never allowed to board that flight.

According to flight tracking information after his quick detention and questioning Mr. Seleznev was whisked away on a Bombardier Global 5000 aircraft owned by VISTA JET with flight number Vistajet 510. According to flight information the scheduled departure time was 11:00 local time but for some reason it was delayed and departed 19 minutes later. This delay was no doubt due to the unpredictable nature of the rendition, though it shows that the CIA expected the procedure to take much less time. The time also coincides with the fact that Roman would have arrived on the airport earlier to register for the flight and although his hotel could not be reached I would assume that the CIA already knew in advance when Roman would arrive by taxi to the airport. Vista Jet flight VJT510 arrived in Guam at 02:33, four minutes ahead of schedule.

After arriving in Guam the aircraft then flew to Dalian, Liaoning in the People’s Republic of China - a fact which may be unrelated but seems rather suspicious given the nature of the aircraft and the mission it had just been on. Perhaps the aircraft had legitimate clients on board, however Vista Jet refused to comment on any aspect of this story.

Under current difficult economic times when airlines continue to go belly up worldwide, Vista Jet seems to be an exception as it is flourishing, which is fully in line with the fact that the airline appears to be used by the CIA for operations such as rendition flights. Again Vista Jet refused to comment when I contacted their representatives. According to Vista Jet’s site in November of 2012 Vista Jet placed the single largest transaction in the history of business aviation by placing an order for Bombadier Global Jets worth $7.8 billion dollars.

Identity theft

After reading the Grand Jury Indictment handed down against Roman Seleznev it becomes clear why a Secret Grand Jury was used to target him. The United States has no evidence and is basing their persecution on the fact that the name Roman Seleznev was used by the criminals they are seeking in what can only be described as identity theft. If the date on the indictment is correct, March 16 2011, then it is also suspicious why Roman was involved in a terrorist attack shortly thereafter. If we recall Roman was one of the victims of a terrorist attack in Marrakech, Morocco on April 28th 2011, a fact that may point to a failed CIA execution attempt and might be fuel for conspiracy theorists.

The indictment covers the targets of the alleged hackers and any investigator worth his salt would probably never file charges against an individual on such contradictory circumstantial evidence. Hence the reason the Grand Jury mechanism was used. The targets of the "hacker" include small local cafes and localized targets that no international "super hacker" would go after. I would suggest the investigators look into disgruntled local residents if they are really interested in finding the perpetrators of the crimes they allege. As Roman only has basic computer knowledge it is not possible that he is the person the US seeks.

In the US Grand Juries meet in secret, their evidence is kept hidden and their findings are not subject to oversight, hence it is the ideal tool for political prosecutions with a pre-determined outcome like those of Julian Assange and other information activists. In such cases evidence is almost impossible to gather, which also explains why Roman was being pressured and kept under conditions amounting to torture as US agents attempted to force him to confess that he is the Roman Seleznev they are looking for.

Rather than admitting they have made a mistake, free the illegally detained Seleznev and apologize for conducting yet another illegal rendition, the US Government will continue to make an abomination of international law and illegally detain yet another Russian citizen for a crime he did not commit. Here we can recall Victor Bout and Constantin Yaroshenko who are locked up in American prisons for "conspiracy to commit crimes" and not for actual crimes committed.

I hope that Roman will be freed soon as he has done nothing wrong, but as with all political prosecutions the US will be highly unlikely to admit they made a mistake. As for Vista Air, they may be just an innocent organization used by the CIA and not involved in anything nefarious, but nevertheless I would fly on Aeroflot or Transaero just to be on the safe side. Given the fact that Mr. Seleznev is a Russian citizen and was taken against his will illegally from the Maldives, one might take up the issue with Vista Air, their number is 44 207 0 605 700. For some reason they did not want to talk to me. 

jar2@list.ru. Please contact me if you have any information on this issue.



15 July, 06:20

Americans "Arrested" Roman Seleznev Without Legal Instruments

Protected Witness

John Robles' Last Investigative Work After Uncovering CIA Airline VISTA JET

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The United States, which has taken the role of the world's policeman, continues to ignore international law, procedural standards, diplomatic conventions and multi-lateral agreements. Roman Seleznev was literally kidnapped by the US from the Maldives on an internal grand jury finding that even a judge in the Maldives did not feel was credible enough to grant the issuing of an arrest warrant. Radio VR spoke to a witness to the kidnapping to get a clearer picture of what actually happened.

Hello, this is John Robles. I am speaking with a source at Male airport in the Maldives, who witnessed the detention of Roman Seleznev. The speaker's name has been kept anonymous for his own safety.

Robles: Hello, sir, thank you for agreeing to speak with me in the middle of the night, I really appreciate it. You witnessed the detention of Mr. Seleznev, can you tell us what you saw?

Source: What I saw was while they were at the departure hall: there was one of my friends, who was accompanying the three of them, one was a man, there was a little daughter and there was a woman.

Clearly, there were two white guys who were having a conversation with him. The other guy, he did not resist anything. I was a bit far away, but I saw him being cuffed by the two Americans (as we later found out).

And I thought it was a normal Interpol operation which we often see in Male airport anyway, so we did not bother to check who he was, we did not bother to come near him, but after three days we realized it was not a normal arrest. It was the Americans and it was the Secret Service. I found it from the news that it was not Interpol.

Anyway, clearly, it was not local police who talked to him; it was the two white guys. I can remember one very clearly, one was wearing a green T-shirt and jeans type pants. He cuffed him.

Then we started watching the guy who was being cuffed, and he was very cool actually, very calm. What he did was he put his jacket or shirt on his wrist so that we couldn't see that he had been cuffed. He was cuffed from the departure hall and then he was walked by these two guys (two American guys), there were some local police behind him, but they were not engaging in anything, they were just behind him. And he was walked to the CIP lounge, which is the "Commercially Important People" lounge which is normally called the VIP lounge, and he was taken there in front of everybody!

There're other witnesses as well. It wasn't very secret; he was taken away in front of us. And the lady with the daughter went through the normal departure hall.

Robles: Why was he taken to the lounge and did the wife and the daughter protest or did they just go and get on the plane?

Source: They were talking, they were engaged in some conversation, but I didn't hear it.

Later I asked the guy who was the representative of Kanifushi, which is the resort he was based in, he told me, the two guys came and said: "You will come with us", or something like that. And there was no paper produced at the time of this arrest.

Robles: They didn’t produce any papers, warrants…? Nothing?

Source: Nothing, just cuffed him; that is what we saw. And why he was taken to the VIP lounge; well, the process is if they are leaving by private jets; anybody can go through that lounge. It's a private lounge, so nobody could actually see what is going on when they go through there. I later talked to the guys who were handling the flight; the guy told me that he was calm, but the two guys literally threw him onto the flight.

Robles: They threw him onto the airplane?

Source: Yes. They were very nice on the inside, but at boarding time they literally pushed him into the plane.

Robles: They physically threw him, pushed him into the plane?

So, what you are telling me is: when people could see them, they were polite and normal, but when they though no one was watching, they were very violent.

Source: I can't say violent or anything like that, but the guy who handled the flight said it wasn't nice. He said he was pushed into the plane.

Robles: His wife Anna gave a press conference and said that while these guys were in the lounge with her husband, she heard them screaming at him, and he kept saying "No! No!"

Source: There was definitely a heated conversation. I mean he physically didn't resist, but he was saying something, I could see that. Like I said, we didn't go near there; we didn't bother to check that because it is a normal sight that people are being carried away in front of us here. These arrests.

Robles: That's normally Interpol or is it Americans who do that?

Source: They were one hundred per cent Americans. That's not… It was confirmed only three days later. I even Tweeted about it the day it happened but I wanted to disregard it because I thought it was just a normal case.

Robles: I'm sorry, what I was asking is it normal for Interpol to arrest people or is it normal for Americans to arrest people there?

Source: For Interpol. Because we are working in the airport, for us an arrest is just a normal thing. Sometimes people are drunk and they have to be arrested. But in this case, it was definitely not locals, it was Americans, I mean too white guys, it was not locals.

Robles: Ok, because the news reports out of the Maldives… The Maldive authorities said that it was locals.

Source: That's not locals, that's not true. If you go through my Twitter timeline on that day you can see exactly.

Robles: Everyone who has been there has said the same thing. Does Interpol normally use local police?

Source: There are some cases that I know of which happened in 2011. Even then the president was involved in a case, but he didn't want to handle just like that, without any warrant or without any court case. But this time it is different, this time they just came, cuffed, took him.

Robles: As far as I know, in the Maldives the law is that if someone is going to be extradited they have to go through a court, right? Then they have to have a finding and after that they have to have an extradition order, right?

Source: Right! Yes! Through the news I read that they tried for the court order but the judge refused

Robles: For Mr.Seleznev the judge refused an order?

Source: The judge refused to give an arrest warrant to police.

Robles: What did you hear? What was the reason?

Source: There was no reason, I have the article which is in local. They changed some parts yesterday, but I have a copy which I have saved locally, in which it is said he was arrested on the advice given by the Attorney General that when they put the exit stamp on his passport, they can arrest him.

Even though he is in the Maldives, if his passport is stamped "exit", they could arrest him.

Robles: Did they stamp his passport?

Source: I don't think they did in the departure hall when they were there. They could have done that in the lounge.

Robles: I see. Or they could have done it later.

Source: They could have done that, but everybody knows it is a stupid reason for an arrest.

Robles: This is also very important. You have just mentioned that they changed the story.

Source: They changed the story and they have a local version on their site. I have the original and it states that they arrested him on the advice by the Attorney General. If they put this exit stamp on his passport they could arrest him.

Robles: In the new story that is not there?

Source: That part has been cut out. Nobody gave an explanation why.

Robles: I see. Very interesting. Do you know anything about this airline?

Source: The company that handled the aircraft, I think, was SkyTours from here, locally. Normally they are the handling agents for jets.

Robles: Did you see this aircraft? Again the company is called "VistaJet"!

Source: "Vistajet" could be the parent company, but the local handling party was not Vista anything. It was SkyTours.

Robles: Did you see any other Americans or did you only see two? Did you see any people with bulletproof vests?

Source: No, nothing. They were in normal casual clothes because the Maldives is a very peaceful place and I don't think anybody would need bulletproofs and all sorts of weapons in the airport. It's really very calm.

Robles: What else have you heard that would be interesting for our listeners?

Source: The interesting part would be the part that I've told you: this arrest was done on an advice by The Attorney General and because the judge refused to issue a warrant.

And now the American counterpart is saying that the Maldives arrested him and for the past two or three days we can see from official US statements that Interpol was not mentioned, it was clearly mentioned "Secret Service", but all of a sudden day before yesterday we saw it was on Interpol's Notice.

Robles: What do you mean it was on Interpol’s notice?

Source: They said he was on Interpol’s watch list, but in none of the official statements from the US could we see any Interpol mentioned – it was clearly said Secret Service.

Robles: So, one: there was no Interpol, it was the US Secret Service; originally there was advice from the Attorney General, that was taken out of the news, right? And originally there were stories that the judge refused to issue a warrant. To whom? To the Americans or to the police?

Source: To the police, but I'm not sure. Anyway, if there was any operation, it would be the police, but the judge refused.

Robles: Let me make sure I have this correct: the Americans wanted to arrest Mr. Seleznev and therefore, asked the judge for a warrant, or the police asked the judge for a warrant. But the judge refused to issue the warrant against Mr. Seleznev. Then, on the advice of the attorney general the Americans kidnapped Mr. Seleznev as long as he had an exit stamp in his passport: it was ok to do that?

Source: Yes, that is what we learnt from the news. That part has been cut out.

Robles: Is there anything else you can tell us?

Source: It's basically it, because it didn't take much time. It took maximum five minutes from the departure hall to the VIP longue.

Robles: Were his wife and his daughter detained or harrassed or pushed around in any way?

Source: No, nothing of that sort. They immediately separated his family and took him away with them after handcuffing him.

Robles: So, he didn't have a chance to say goodbye to his wife or talk to her?

Source: After they cuffed him, we got out of the departure hall. Then again we saw him been walked in front of us to the arrival hall.

Robles: Is it normal when they arrest people to take them to this CIP "VIP" lounge?

Source: No, it's not normal. They would be taken out from some other entrance.

Robles: So, it was very unusual that he was taken through the VIP lounge.

Source: Yes, we were talking about it because there were so many people in the arrival hall, and they saw that he was cuffed and was being walked from the departure hall through the arrival to the VIP-lounge. When we started watching him, he put his jacket or coat on his wrist.

Robles: He did it himself?

Source: Yes.

Robles: What do you mean "he was walked"? Was he forced?

Source: He was, obviously, cuffed, the other two on both sides.

Robles: Did they have guns?

Source: Not visibly.

Robles: Is it possible, that they were pointing a gun at him?

Source: No.

Robles: Okay. Thank you, I really appreciate this. 

This is John Robles, I am speaking with an anonymous source at Male airport in the Maldives, who witnessed the detention of Roman Seleznev. The speaker’s name has been kept anonymous for his own safety.